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  1. #31
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    Oct 2006
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    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    And if the lease stated you are to arrange your cereal boxes a certain way, and you don't, a Judge would be forced to enforce that eviction? His hands would be tied by that ridiculous lease language?

    I know for a fact that a plumber cannot enforce a $50K labor bill for changing a toilet. Why?
    Its quite possible that if the lease was that ridiculous that a judge might rule that the lease is unenforceable.

  2. #32
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Nice wording..."could" instead of would?
    Because when dealing with hypotheticals and not fully know fact sets it is stupid to make absolute statements.

    You are wrong about the $50K plumbing bill!
    Just like this one of yours.

    I've asked several times now, why would a Judge dismiss the cereal box case when cereal boxes were in the lease language?
    I can't think of one.

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Its quite possible that if the lease was that ridiculous that a judge might rule that the lease is unenforceable.
    But there may be a very good reason for what, when stated in a single sentence on a forum, seems ridiculous.

  3. #33
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    Feb 2014
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    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Its quite possible that if the lease was that ridiculous that a judge might rule that the lease is unenforceable.
    I've seen Section 8 (and income-restricted) apartments where the apartments were inspected every 6 months or so. I helped a friend of mine clean walls, baseboards, and the rest of the apartment because the management was coming to inspect her apartment. Granted, this happened in AL over 20 years ago, and OP is in TN, but I can see it being legal.
    Don't make me quote Monty Python at you.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    Quote Quoting BooRennie
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    I've seen Section 8 (and income-restricted) apartments where the apartments were inspected every 6 months or so. I helped a friend of mine clean walls, baseboards, and the rest of the apartment because the management was coming to inspect her apartment. Granted, this happened in AL over 20 years ago, and OP is in TN, but I can see it being legal.
    It wouldn't surprise me at all, nor would I consider it unreasonable for a landlord to inspect (particularly section 8 housing) every six months. Its the combination of monthly inspection, AND the landlord threatening violations because they don't like the way someone's home is organized.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
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    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    It wouldn't surprise me at all, nor would I consider it unreasonable for a landlord to inspect (particularly section 8 housing) every six months. Its the combination of monthly inspection, AND the landlord threatening violations because they don't like the way someone's home is organized.
    Based on an earlier description the portion of the apartment in question is not organized, or may not be considered organized by the observer.

    We don't know what the apartment looks like in it's general condition, we only know what one clause states and we only have the opinion if the OP which could be considered biased.

    Again, while the monthly inspections appear to be unreasonable it's moot since the OP signed a lease with this in the contract and it's not illegal. It's onerous, it's a burden and can cause the OP problems, though what that looks like is unclear, but the OP agreed to the conditions and must now tolerate the LL in their home expressing opinions as to the state of their home. So far the only harm the OP has suffered seems to be enduring criticism.

    If they choose to pursue legal action they will have to determine the legal basis for the claim and likely hire an attorney to handle the action with a rather unsure outcome that, even if successful, would net nothing except maybe a declaration of some sort that that clause was void or something.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    Based on an earlier description the portion of the apartment in question is not organized, or may not be considered organized by the observer.
    I agree. However, as long as the apartment isn't actually dirty, it shouldn't be any of the landlord's business how it's organized.

    We don't know what the apartment looks like in it's general condition, we only know what one clause states and we only have the opinion if the OP which could be considered biased.
    I find the OP credible.

    Again, while the monthly inspections appear to be unreasonable it's moot since the OP signed a lease with this in the contract and it's not illegal. It's onerous, it's a burden and can cause the OP problems, though what that looks like is unclear, but the OP agreed to the conditions and must now tolerate the LL in their home expressing opinions as to the state of their home. So far the only harm the OP has suffered seems to be enduring criticism.
    Re-read. Its not just criticisms, its threats.

    If they choose to pursue legal action they will have to determine the legal basis for the claim and likely hire an attorney to handle the action with a rather unsure outcome that, even if successful, would net nothing except maybe a declaration of some sort that that clause was void or something.
    I am not suggesting that they sue. I am suggesting that the stand up to the nit picky manager, but not until after their lease is renewed.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    847

    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    Quote Quoting JDIAC
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    It is not section 8 housing. But it is an income restricted property. You cannot make more than "x" amount of dollars per "x" amount of occupants to live here when you first qualify to move in. We will be here three years at March's lease renewal. As it turns out we now make above the income limit but that does not matter because that is only considered when you initially move in. We got our lease renewal letter before the end of the year and turned in all the paperwork and we are just waiting on an appointment to go sign the lease.
    From what you are saying it sounds like you are living at a Low Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC) property. If so, the owners receive federal funding and are subject to federal housing (HUD) rules, which includes that they cannot terminate anyone’s lease without cause. However it’s also my understanding that anyone in LIHTC housing must pass an annual income recertification so I don’t know why you would only have to qualify once.

    Quote Quoting JDIAC
    View Post
    So we had an inspection yesterday and today we get another lease violation. This time regarding the clutter in the dining area. The notice reads "It has been noticed during inspection your unit has a large amount of clutter in the dining area. Per your community rules, Section 16, paragraph 3, Keep walls and woodwork free from dirty hand prints, ink, crayons, stickers and holes. Carpet, vinyl, tile and baseboards are to be kepth clean at all times. Vacuum carpet frequently. Beverage and food spots can be removed with cold water and a mild soap. Clean vinyl or tile thoroughly before waxing. Keep floors free from clutter, toys, clothes, etc."

    It is important to note that our house is clean...the floors are clean, the walls are clean, no crayon marks, kitchen, bathroom, livingroom, master bedroom we do use is spotless.

    At this point it is clear she is picking on us. The previous problem was that we were blocking the path from door to window in the other room which she deemed a safety hazard due to fire possibility. OK I can take that. But now she is picking on an area that has zero windows.
    Although it does not appear that your clutter meets the definition of hoarding as a mental illness, it is still possible that you could claim entitlement under the Fair Housing Act Amendments to “reasonable accommodations of policies, practices or services when such when such accommodations may be necessary to afford such person equal opportunity to use and enjoy a dwelling.42 U.S.C. 3604(f)(3)(B).

    Since 2013, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) has recognized that hoarding is a mental disability, and hoarders have been recognized under the FHHA as a protected class. The part of your notice that says, “Keep floors free from clutter, toys, clothes, etc." could be interpreted as illegal discrimination, because it targets anyone who hoards stuff but does not violate any building, fire or health codes. The problem is that your situation probably does not rise to the level of mental illness, meaning that you still might have a duty to follow the terms of your lease.

    The above is sort of a long shot argument that I found to be interesting, but definitely one I would only want to try AFTER renewing my lease.

    I read several articles on the web that suggest to me maybe apartment managers are in a gray area when trying to strictly enforce rules against clutter. The Fair Housing Project of Legal Aid of North Carolina has a good article that I’m linking here as a reference, and applies to federally funded housing in any state.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    Per the first post there was mention of piling to make a path to the window. This call into question the what "clean" means.

    Whether or not you consider the OP credible (I have not said they are not) they are still likely biased because it's in their interest.

    The threat that are mentioned seem to reference lease violations. It's within the LL's purview to enforce the lease.

    We don't know if it's a nit picky LL or not. It's the chief problem with a forum such as this is we get selective at worst or incomplete snapshots of complex situations upon which we base our information. This is not a criticism of OP's, largely, it's just a pitfall of forums. The real problem is when we presume a complete picture or lend sterling credibility to an OP without questioning the possibility of bias and the make definitive statements that we really aren't in a position to make about specific situation. So, for myself, I believe the the OP is in a difficult though self-imposed situation that they are looking to perpetuate despite existing problems with management and that management MAY be in the right. Alas, it doesn't APPEAR that the LL or owner is doing anything illegal, just invasive and maybe punitive per the terms of the existing lease and with terms that will carry through the next lease. If I were the OP I would leave, especially since the OP stated that they could afford it but it would be a hit due to their status as a student. So, the real choice is summarized by an old song from the 1980's: should I leave or should I go. I would go.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  9. #39
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    Feb 2014
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    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    an old song from the 1980's: should I leave or should I go. I would go.
    Should I STAY or should I go now....
    The Clash. What fun.
    Don't make me quote Monty Python at you.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Use of Our Space Part 2

    So once again, just like last time, we got this lease violation notice to fix it within 48 hours in which there would be a re-inspection. And once again, we fixed it all and waited all day and she did not come back to re-inspect. I really don't know what to make of that. What scares me is that when I have read reviews of this place, she has evicted others or else not renewed their lease and when new properties called her to question those prospective tenant histories, she brought up all her frivolous lease violations and bad mouthed the people to the point they could not get approved to live elsewhere.

    Meanwhile this problem has gotten my husband and I into an argument (when she does this I feel like I have to go above and beyond to organize the clutter and he feels like picking one or two things up is enough), and it has caused me to stress to the point I am unable to concentrate on my school work and even sleep because I cannot get into a deep sleep I keep thinking of this lease violation even when I try to sleep. I already suffer from GAD and she is aware of this.

    I would leave in a heartbeat if that were an option. But here in east TN, because so many people are moving here rents have risen. What we pay for our two bedroom apartment now is actually less than what most people pay for a one bedroom in an "OK" apartment complex, or an older mobile home. Quite frankly, we are tired of renting due to various reasons and we are just biding our time until we are in a position to buy. Right now we have to wait one more year it looks like.

    This lease states we cannot have a satellite dish on our balcony. In fact when we moved in we were told that Spectrum was the only option as it was the only one wired for this area. We overpaid for Spectrum for two years before we ran into an AT&T salesman who assured us we could get service in this area. We were going to get a huge deal including a satellite but it needed to go out on our balcony (no damage to property). We called to verify the lease and she said absolutely not. So we ended up going with AT&T anyway but not getting the awesome bundle deal. Meanwhile I learned this lease is not enforceable due to Federal Communications Commission Order 98-273 however I did not want to "step on toes" so to speak because I don't want to give her reason to nitpick or not renew our lease. I know a lot of tenants cause problems but geez, being a renter is the pits! After we got AT&T we noticed a lot of wi-fi names are now AT&T not Spectrum/Charter so we are happy to have at least paved that way for them.

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