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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    Quote Quoting CaliforniaDriver
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    Thank you. Those words are so complex. So even if she or anyone only touched a breast or rear or anywhere said to be sexual, then it can be charged and persecuted until the victims 40th birthday?
    No, the felonies that apply are listed. Grabbing a butt is hardly a felony.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    Quote Quoting RJR
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    No, the felonies that apply are listed. Grabbing a butt is hardly a felony.

    Listed how and where? You mean the code section numbers? I read in the newspaper that an adult touching a minors butt or private part from outside the clothes can be a felony.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    Quote Quoting CaliforniaDriver
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    Listed how and where? You mean the code section numbers? I read in the newspaper that an adult touching a minors butt or private part from outside the clothes can be a felony.
    Post 9 links a law. It only concerns "Unknown object penetration" not feeling or patting private parts.

    I don't know CA Law, but in Ohio, if I am not mistaken, at one time many years ago, Rape did not include digital or object insertion/penetration. Don't quote me on that, but you see the legal comparison.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    Quote Quoting RJR
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    Post 9 links a law. It only concerns "Unknown object penetration" not feeling or patting private parts.

    I don't know CA Law, but in Ohio, if I am not mistaken, at one time many years ago, Rape did not include digital or object insertion/penetration. Don't quote me on that, but you see the legal comparison.

    Thanks.... then what persecution limitation applies to feeling or patting private parts ? No sex, no penetration.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    There IS a statute of limitations for certain enumerated offenses as included in PC 801.1. The scenario you mention, the touching of a breast or buttocks, would most likely be charged as PC 243.4 (misdemeanor sexual battery) and would be subject to a lesser criminal SoL of one year. Rape involving force or violence can be commenced at ANY time (PC 799). Rape by other means is subject to the limits under PC 801.1. As with many offenses, the exact details matter. Given the headlines, FORCE does not appear to be an issue, so the SoL contained in PC 801.1 appears to be the one that applies here.

    And Civil Code section 340.16 contains the 10 year limit for lawsuits.

    Quote Quoting CaliforniaDriver
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    Listed how and where? You mean the code section numbers? I read in the newspaper that an adult touching a minors butt or private part from outside the clothes can be a felony.
    Only under certain circumstances. Those circumstances are rarely met.

    Quote Quoting CaliforniaDriver
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    Thanks.... then what persecution limitation applies to feeling or patting private parts ? No sex, no penetration.
    PC 243.4 has a criminal SoL of one year.
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  6. #16

    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    There IS a statute of limitations for certain enumerated offenses as included in PC 801.1. The scenario you mention, the touching of a breast or buttocks, would most likely be charged as PC 243.4 (misdemeanor sexual battery) and would be subject to a lesser criminal SoL of one year. Rape involving force or violence can be commenced at ANY time (PC 799). Rape by other means is subject to the limits under PC 801.1. As with many offenses, the exact details matter. Given the headlines, FORCE does not appear to be an issue, so the SoL contained in PC 801.1 appears to be the one that applies here.

    And Civil Code section 340.16 contains the 10 year limit for lawsuits.



    Only under certain circumstances. Those circumstances are rarely met.



    PC 243.4 has a criminal SoL of one year.

    Thank you, but regarding civil claims and under 18, the newspaper and TV announced that the ten year limitation for civil is waived or gone for three years from this January 1st, 2020.

    Secondly, regarding criminal, how can there be a one year limitation if a <18 year old is involved? That would mean a 17 year old has until 18 years old.

    Maybe it's just me, but in looking at burglary, assault, embezzlement..... the text is difficult to understand, and the laws concerning crimes are very complex and tedious to read. Lawyers must be geniuses.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    Quote Quoting CaliforniaDriver
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    Thank you, but regarding civil claims and under 18, the newspaper and TV announced that the ten year limitation for civil is waived or gone for three years from this January 1st, 2020.

    Secondly, regarding criminal, how can there be a one year limitation if a <18 year old is involved? That would mean a 17 year old has until 18 years old.

    Maybe it's just me, but in looking at burglary, assault, embezzlement..... the text is difficult to understand, and the laws concerning crimes are very complex and tedious to read. Lawyers must be geniuses.
    There are a number of exceptions in both the civil and criminal codes. You are free to do a lot of reading if you'd like. The teacher is not being charged with misdemeanor sexual battery, but, apparently, one of the enumerated felonies under PC 801.1.

    And, yes, attorneys have to attend a lot of school and they learn a LOT of details most of us won't easily comprehend. It's a Juris Doctorate degree for a reason.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    Quote Quoting CaliforniaDriver
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    Thank you. Those words are so complex. So even if she or anyone only touched a breast or rear or anywhere said to be sexual, then it can be charged and persecuted until the victims 40th birthday?
    What's complex? Subsection (a)(1) says that prosecution for any of the listed crimes may occur any time prior to the alleged victim's 40th birthday if the alleged act occurred while the alleged victim was still a minor. However, subsection (a)(2) says that, in order for paragraph 1 to apply, the crime must have been committed after 1/1/2015 or the previously applicable statute of limitation had not expired prior to 1/1/2015. Pretty simple. No?

    Also, the discussion thus far has only concerned the statute of limitations for criminal prosecution (not "persecution"). The civil statute of limitations is found in section 340.1 of the Code of Civil Procedure and is basically the same as under PC 801.1: "within 22 years of the date the plaintiff attains the age of majority or within five years of the date the plaintiff discovers or reasonably should have discovered that psychological injury or illness occurring after the age of majority was caused by the sexual assault, whichever period expires later."


    Quote Quoting RJR
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    Post 9 links a law. It only concerns "Unknown object penetration"
    That's not correct. The crimes to which PC 801.1 applies are as follows:

    1. PC 261 (rape)
    2. PC 286 (sodomy)
    3. PC 287 (oral copulation)
    4. PC 288 (commission of a lewd or lascivious act upon a child)
    5. PC 288.5 (sexual abuse of a child in one's home)
    6. Former PC 288a (oral copulation with a minor)
    7. PC "289.5, as enacted by Chapter 293 of the Statutes of 1991 relating to penetration by an unknown object.

    "[A]n adult touching a minor[']s butt or private parts from outside the clothes" certainly could be charged under PC 288.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    Quote Quoting pg1067
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    What's complex? Subsection (a)(1) says that prosecution for any of the listed crimes may occur any time prior to the alleged victim's 40th birthday if the alleged act occurred while the alleged victim was still a minor. However, subsection (a)(2) says that, in order for paragraph 1 to apply, the crime must have been committed after 1/1/2015 or the previously applicable statute of limitation had not expired prior to 1/1/2015. Pretty simple. No?

    Also, the discussion thus far has only concerned the statute of limitations for criminal prosecution (not "persecution"). The civil statute of limitations is found in section 340.1 of the Code of Civil Procedure and is basically the same as under PC 801.1: "within 22 years of the date the plaintiff attains the age of majority or within five years of the date the plaintiff discovers or reasonably should have discovered that psychological injury or illness occurring after the age of majority was caused by the sexual assault, whichever period expires later."




    That's not correct. The crimes to which PC 801.1 applies are as follows:

    1. PC 261 (rape)
    2. PC 286 (sodomy)
    3. PC 287 (oral copulation)
    4. PC 288 (commission of a lewd or lascivious act upon a child)
    5. PC 288.5 (sexual abuse of a child in one's home)
    6. Former PC 288a (oral copulation with a minor)
    7. PC "289.5, as enacted by Chapter 293 of the Statutes of 1991 relating to penetration by an unknown object.

    "[A]n adult touching a minor[']s butt or private parts from outside the clothes" certainly could be charged under PC 288.


    I think that's a little iffy. The child would have to be in the person's home. I could also see a gym teacher patting kids on the butt for no sexual reason at all.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Teacher in the East Bay Prosecuted Over 10 Years Later

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    I think that's a little iffy. The child would have to be in the person's home.
    PC 288 does not require that the victim be a member of the accused's household or in the accused's home. "Except as provided in subdivision (i), a person who willfully and lewdly commits any lewd or lascivious act, including any of the acts constituting other crimes provided for in Part 1, upon or with the body, or any part or member thereof, of a child who is under the age of 14 years, with the intent of arousing, appealing to, or gratifying the lust, passions, or sexual desires of that person or the child, is guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, six, or eight years." PC 288(a) (note that subsection (a) of PC 288 is not the same thing as former PC 288a).


    Quote Quoting llworking
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    I could also see a gym teacher patting kids on the butt for no sexual reason at all.
    I don't disagree at all (hence my use of "could be charged"), although in today's climate, I'm confident that gym teachers are told to refrain from any contact with students (regardless of the body part) unless absolutely necessary.

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