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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    20

    Default A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    My question involves a marriage in the state of: Kentucky


    Spousal calculation of child support.

    EX SPOUSE is estranged from her current husband and has been for two years, neither live in the same county.

    EX SPOUSE has an estate and a complete operational farm, just purchased additional property to facilitate resident status for a certain school district for our children

    EX SPOUSE has expensive taste, drives a Tesla and owns 4 horses.

    EX SPOUSES income is not enough to provide support for all these lavish living arrangements and possessions

    EX SPOUSES estranged husband has plenty of money (why she divorced me and married him), I am of the firm belief he provides her with a sizable monthly payment to keep her away from him and his daughter.

    Due to recent changes in our girls school district which I was advised not to fight over, I now have considerable additional expenses driving them back and forth to their new schools, both private, that I don't pay for because I was against it from the beginning.

    NOW I am requesting a child support award.

    My question is this: If I can prove a monthly payment to her from her estranged spouse is that considered income under any case law available? This is not using the estranged husbands income since they are effectively separate, use of his income not allowed understandably, but in this circumstance she is receiving payment from him as income, perhaps in the form of the mortgage payment, car payment, taxes, combination, all of the above or just a lump sum payment every month.

    There must be a judgment on this exact situation somewhere in our nation, if anyone knows would they please direct me to that case law?

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    15,935

    Default Re: A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    Quote Quoting Trippin
    View Post
    My question involves a marriage in the state of: Kentucky


    Spousal calculation of child support.

    EX SPOUSE is estranged from her current husband and has been for two years, neither live in the same county.

    EX SPOUSE has an estate and a complete operational farm, just purchased additional property to facilitate resident status for a certain school district for our children

    EX SPOUSE has expensive taste, drives a Tesla and owns 4 horses.

    EX SPOUSES income is not enough to provide support for all these lavish living arrangements and possessions

    EX SPOUSES estranged husband has plenty of money (why she divorced me and married him), I am of the firm belief he provides her with a sizable monthly payment to keep her away from him and his daughter.

    Due to recent changes in our girls school district which I was advised not to fight over, I now have considerable additional expenses driving them back and forth to their new schools, both private, that I don't pay for because I was against it from the beginning.

    NOW I am requesting a child support award.

    My question is this: If I can prove a monthly payment to her from her estranged spouse is that considered income under any case law available? This is not using the estranged husbands income since they are effectively separate, use of his income not allowed understandably, but in this circumstance she is receiving payment from him as income, perhaps in the form of the mortgage payment, car payment, taxes, combination, all of the above or just a lump sum payment every month.

    There must be a judgment on this exact situation somewhere in our nation, if anyone knows would they please direct me to that case law?

    Thank you.
    Lets say that they were living in the same household? Would you then consider his covering her lifestyle to be income to her? As long as they are married its simply a husband supporting his wife. If they were divorced or legally separated and she was receiving court ordered alimony, that would be a different story.

    What is your timeshare with the children? Unless you are the parent with primary custody (doesn't sound like it) or have a 50/50 timeshare and make less money than she does, you won't be able to get child support, and if you filed to create a child support award, you might find yourself paying child support, so be careful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    Understood, yes we have 50/50, and I make at least half of what she does. I understand the marriage issue and yes I would consider him covering her lifestyle as a function of his marriage if in fact they resided in the same household, it's the extended estrangement that has me a little baffled and her insatiable appetite for money & power. He has deliberately moved her out to this new estate 30 miles away, she has no way of affording on her own plus all the added expense. I'm trying to find any way to legally challenge her income statements when we receive them about all of her income sources, trying to show at minimum some shady financial transactions, that's all, if I could convince the court that she is inherently hiding assets then a larger award may present? No...? Wishful thinking perhaps.

  4. #4
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    Oct 2006
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    15,935

    Default Re: A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    Quote Quoting Trippin
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    Understood, yes we have 50/50, and I make at least half of what she does. I understand the marriage issue and yes I would consider him covering her lifestyle as a function of his marriage if in fact they resided in the same household, it's the extended estrangement that has me a little baffled and her insatiable appetite for money & power. He has deliberately moved her out to this new estate 30 miles away, she has no way of affording on her own plus all the added expense. I'm trying to find any way to legally challenge her income statements when we receive them about all of her income sources, trying to show at minimum some shady financial transactions, that's all, if I could convince the court that she is inherently hiding assets then a larger award may present? No...? Wishful thinking perhaps.
    I am sorry but yes, it is wishful thinking. As long as they are not divorced or legally separated, with a court order of alimony, you are never going to be able to get any money provided by him to count as income to her. Your personal opinion doesn't count. Its just not going to happen.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2013
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    17,505

    Default Re: A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    Quote Quoting Trippin
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    Wishful thinking perhaps.
    Yup. Wishful thinking.

    I've read enough about this kind of thing for past 20 years to have to agree with Ilworking.

    It's not going to happen. And going to court on it could backfire.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    319

    Default Re: A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    Quote Quoting Trippin
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    Understood, yes we have 50/50, and I make at least half of what she does. I understand the marriage issue and yes I would consider him covering her lifestyle as a function of his marriage if in fact they resided in the same household, it's the extended estrangement that has me a little baffled and her insatiable appetite for money & power. He has deliberately moved her out to this new estate 30 miles away, she has no way of affording on her own plus all the added expense. I'm trying to find any way to legally challenge her income statements when we receive them about all of her income sources, trying to show at minimum some shady financial transactions, that's all, if I could convince the court that she is inherently hiding assets then a larger award may present? No...? Wishful thinking perhaps.
    Is your ex's documented income twice yours? And did you run the numbers through the KY child support calculator before you filed?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    20

    Default Re: A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    Thanks,

    The responses were what I expected but figured I'd give it a shot hoping for some precedent somewhere.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    7,626

    Default Re: A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    Quote Quoting Trippin
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    There must be a judgment on this exact situation somewhere in our nation, if anyone knows would they please direct me to that case law?

    Thank you.
    I disagree with the other responses you received. The situation, as you describe it, effectively amounts to gifts from him to her. And while gifts are not income for tax purposes, in Kentucky they are income for child support purposes. As the Kentucky Supreme Court stated:

    In the present case, the trial court determined Appellee's gross income by inferring that she had additional income from gifts, her gambling, and ticket scalping from the court's conclusion that “her lifestyle and property reflected an income greater than her W–2's and tax returns indicated.” Certainly, these types of undocumented income, while not susceptible to documentation, are nevertheless income which, if proven, a trial court should consider when determining a party's gross income.

    Schoenbachler v. Minyard, 110 S.W.3d 776, 784–85 (Ky. 2003). The reason the state includes gifts is that:

    There are no cases in Kentucky construing what is meant by gifts in this context. The definition of “gift” in Black's Law Dictionary is “a voluntary transfer of property to another made gratuitously or without consideration.” Black's Law Dictionary 688 (6th ed.1990).

    In Petrini v. Petrini, 336 Md. 453, 460, 648 A.2d 1016, 1019 (1994), the Maryland Court of Appeals found that a father who had received rent-free housing and payment of expenses from his mother should have those items credited as gifts which increased his income for child support determinations. The court found that if a parent is relieved of some basic living expenses through outside contributions, it may be appropriate under certain circumstances to increase the parent's actual income to account for such contributions. Petrini v. Petrini, 336 Md. 453, 460, 648 A.2d 1016, 1019 (1994). The court acknowledged that these benefits may have the effect of freeing up other income that may not have otherwise been available to pay a child support award. Id. We agree with the Maryland court that by having these expenses paid for him, it frees appellant's other sources of income for payment to his child.

    Stewart v. Burton, 108 S.W.3d 647, 648 (Ky. Ct. App. 2003). Therefore I would take the position that the gifts, if you can prove them, are countable in determining the parent's income.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    1,988

    Default Re: A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    Quote Quoting Trippin
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    My question is this: If I can prove a monthly payment to her from her estranged spouse is that considered income under any case law available?
    This isn't a complete sentence, so I'm not really sure what you're saying. Also, determining whether case law exists would require one to do legal research. Generally, folks on message boards aren't going to do that.


    Quote Quoting Trippin
    View Post
    There must be a judgment on this exact situation somewhere in our nation, if anyone knows would they please direct me to that case law?
    Maybe, but case authority from a state other than Kentucky would not be particularly helpful unless there is no Kentucky case law on point. You need to try and find Kentucky case law on the subject. Only if you cannot find anything should you look to cases from other states.

  10. #10
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: A Question of Case Law, There Must Be Some Somewhere

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    I am sorry but yes, it is wishful thinking. As long as they are not divorced or legally separated, with a court order of alimony, you are never going to be able to get any money provided by him to count as income to her. Your personal opinion doesn't count. Its just not going to happen.
    No it is not wishful thinking to think that when an ex spouse remarries it does constitute a change in circumstances that could lead to a change in child support or support payments. Your emphatic assertions you make have no bases in law or case law. You should do some research before you post such statements.

    In Kentucky when someone remarries, their financial support changes and that is considered when the courts review a case for a change in circumstance.

    https://lawreader.com/?p=15396

    Start reading.

    https://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...+husband&btnG=

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