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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    I don't care what state your in, if a pipe broke and flooded an apt building, no tenant will ever pay for the tens of thousands in damages. That is where statute meets common sense.
    Ah, but we don't know that a pipe broke in this case, do we? We know only that the toilet overflowed, and you yourself stated that often a toilet overflow is due to a blockage caused by the user. And that blockage might be easily remedied, might it not? Yet you went on to claim that the landlord would be responsible for all damages that might occur in the unit, including apparently this overflow. My point was that you have to know what actual repair is required (and we don't know what was required here) and we have to know what the lease says, if anything, about who is responsible for that sort of repair. Without that information one cannot say who is responsible for the repair.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    Ah, but we don't know that a pipe broke in this case, do we? We know only that the toilet overflowed, and you yourself stated that often a toilet overflow is due to a blockage caused by the user. And that blockage might be easily remedied, might it not? Yet you went on to claim that the landlord would be responsible for all damages that might occur in the unit, including apparently this overflow. My point was that you have to know what actual repair is required (and we don't know what was required here) and we have to know what the lease says, if anything, about who is responsible for that sort of repair. Without that information one cannot say who is responsible for the repair.
    The big problem during your case here counselor is that even though you tried to weed out anyone with plumbing experience during your jury selection one person with over thirty years of toilet experience seemes to have found his way onto your jury. Also, since you tried to stack the jury with incompationate landlords, you didn't get any onto your jury. And when you say "we', you are only talking to your biased co-counsel and client...not to the jury.

    A lawyer who tried to prepare himself for this case would only have a short time to get himself up to speed on the workings of a toilet. It would be much easier to confuse and mislead the jury in typical lawyer fashion while trying to discredit the tenant as a dishonest scumbag. But this one 'sleeper' juror knows that only about one half of a gallon can overflow without the float being defective. He also knows, and will educate the jury during deliberation, that a toilet cannot overflow unless it is flushed. It also cannot 'overflow' while nobody is home without there being integral plumbing issues.

    So while you want to direct the jury to the testimony that fits your agenda, more was said by the tenant that you wish was not said. Also, your expert plumbing witness who took the stand and lied his a$$ off and could not be exposed by the tenant's attorney will be exposed by this juror.

    So even though you entered evidence that this tenant has a record for hitting his girlfriend, smoking pot, drunk driving and suing a past landlord, you cannot get past the fact that a toilet is defective if it overflows by itself while nobody is home or if more than a half of gallon flows onto the floor.

    My suggestion, next time do a better job of selecting your jury so they can be BS'd easier in typical lawyer fashion under typical courtroom restrictions.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    The big problem during your case here counselor is that even though you tried to weed out anyone with plumbing experience during your jury selection one person with over thirty years of toilet experience seemes to have found his way onto your jury. Also, since you tried to stack the jury with incompationate landlords, you didn't get any onto your jury. And when you say "we', you are only talking to your biased co-counsel and client...not to the jury.

    A lawyer who tried to prepare himself for this case would only have a short time to get himself up to speed on the workings of a toilet. It would be much easier to confuse and mislead the jury in typical lawyer fashion while trying to discredit the tenant as a dishonest scumbag. But this one 'sleeper' juror knows that only about one half of a gallon can overflow without the float being defective. He also knows, and will educate the jury during deliberation, that a toilet cannot overflow unless it is flushed. It also cannot 'overflow' while nobody is home without there being integral plumbing issues.

    So while you want to direct the jury to the testimony that fits your agenda, more was said by the tenant that you wish was not said. Also, your expert plumbing witness who took the stand and lied his a$$ off and could not be exposed by the tenant's attorney will be exposed by this juror.

    So even though you entered evidence that this tenant has a record for hitting his girlfriend, smoking pot, drunk driving and suing a past landlord, you cannot get past the fact that a toilet is defective if it overflows by itself while nobody is home or if more than a half of gallon flows onto the floor.

    My suggestion, next time do a better job of selecting your jury so they can be BS'd easier in typical lawyer fashion under typical courtroom restrictions.
    There is no jury and this makes no sense at all. I think you fell down several flights of stairs and hit your head on every step.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    There is no jury and this makes no sense at all. I think you fell down several flights of stairs and hit your head on every step.
    Since you did not get it, this is a hypothetical scenario of this case going to trial, with TM representing the landlord and me being on the jury...with only the evidence that has been disclosed so far.

    Sorry you got confused.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    The big problem during your case here counselor is that even though you tried to weed out anyone with plumbing experience during your jury selection one person with over thirty years of toilet experience seemes to have found his way onto your jury. Also, since you tried to stack the jury with incompationate landlords, you didn't get any onto your jury. And when you say "we', you are only talking to your biased co-counsel and client...not to the jury.

    A lawyer who tried to prepare himself for this case would only have a short time to get himself up to speed on the workings of a toilet. It would be much easier to confuse and mislead the jury in typical lawyer fashion while trying to discredit the tenant as a dishonest scumbag. But this one 'sleeper' juror knows that only about one half of a gallon can overflow without the float being defective. He also knows, and will educate the jury during deliberation, that a toilet cannot overflow unless it is flushed. It also cannot 'overflow' while nobody is home without there being integral plumbing issues.

    So while you want to direct the jury to the testimony that fits your agenda, more was said by the tenant that you wish was not said. Also, your expert plumbing witness who took the stand and lied his a$$ off and could not be exposed by the tenant's attorney will be exposed by this juror.

    So even though you entered evidence that this tenant has a record for hitting his girlfriend, smoking pot, drunk driving and suing a past landlord, you cannot get past the fact that a toilet is defective if it overflows by itself while nobody is home or if more than a half of gallon flows onto the floor.

    My suggestion, next time do a better job of selecting your jury so they can be BS'd easier in typical lawyer fashion under typical courtroom restrictions.
    LOL, I expected this kind of response from you. My post addressed what the landlord is legally obligated to repair. And my statements on that are accurate. Your diatribe above does not address the landlord's legal responsibility in anyway. What you might know about plumbing could help explain how the damage occurred but does not in the least settle the issue of who has to pay for it. You have to look at the lease and the applicable state law to answer that question. The judge would instruct the jury on that. So it's nice effort by you in misdirection, but it's not at all relevant to what I discussed.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    LOL, I expected this kind of response from you. My post addressed what the landlord is legally obligated to repair. And my statements on that are accurate. Your diatribe above does not address the landlord's legal responsibility in anyway. What you might know about plumbing could help explain how the damage occurred but does not in the least settle the issue of who has to pay for it. You have to look at the lease and the applicable state law to answer that question. The judge would instruct the jury on that. So it's nice effort by you in misdirection, but it's not at all relevant to what I discussed.
    It is not a diatribe. It is exactly how a lawyer would go about a case like this.

    How it occurred would determine who paid for the damages. How can you infer otherwise?

    "A toilet overflowing (or leaking) by itself" releases the tenant of any responsibility.

    I also enjoy reading your lawyer wording as with "what I might know" and it "could help explain." I find it fascinating how lawyers belittle and doubt people out of what appears to be an innate reflex response. ...Because you would not use those words on your expert witness if he had the same credentials as me. Just saying.

    Another thing about trials. If you got me on the stand you could likely trash and muzzle me. But if I was alone with the jury, away from the slick talking lawyers, I could easily sway them. I am overly convincing to my clientele every day on matters like this.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Because the landlord owns the property and is responsible for all the damage.

    Maybe it is you that is young and inexperienced at owning property.
    I am 66 and my husband and I managed rental.property for a while.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    The landlord is not responsible for ALL damage, the landlord is responsible for certain types of damage.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    How it occurred would determine who paid for the damages. How can you infer otherwise?

    "A toilet overflowing (or leaking) by itself" releases the tenant of any responsibility.
    You are missing the critical piece. Knowing the cause of the problem is only the first step. The second step, which is what I addressed, is that you need to look to the statute and the lease to determine who is responsible for fixing that kind of problem. So if the lease put the responsibility for fixing this sort of problem on the tenant then the tenant is NOT released of responsibility. He pays for it because he agreed to that in the lease. It's really not that hard a concept. You just want to argue for the sake of arguing, I think.

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Another thing about trials. If you got me on the stand you could likely trash and muzzle me. But if I was alone with the jury, away from the slick talking lawyers, I could easily sway them. I am overly convincing to my clientele every day on matters like this.
    You might be overestimating your powers of persuasion with 11 other people. But in any event I could keep you off he jury if I wanted.

    And, of course, once I pointed out to the tenant that the lease says he pays for it, the chances are very good it never makes it to trial as the tenant would recognize he'd likely lose and agree to settle the matter. Over 90% of cases filed in court never make it to trial.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Can I Stop My Mentally Insane Former Landlord from Renting

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    The landlord is not responsible for ALL damage, the landlord is responsible for certain types of damage.
    Yes, I know, but we are not talking about holes in walls, 6mo only carpet with holes and stains on it or doors that were ripped off the jambs. We are talking about a plumbing leak that may have damaged the floor and the unit below. A plumbing leak that the tenant told the landlord about but the landlord chose not to fix.

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    You are missing the critical piece. Knowing the cause of the problem is only the first step. The second step, which is what I addressed, is that you need to look to the statute and the lease to determine who is responsible for fixing that kind of problem. So if the lease put the responsibility for fixing this sort of problem on the tenant then the tenant is NOT released of responsibility. He pays for it because he agreed to that in the lease. It's really not that hard a concept. You just want to argue for the sake of arguing, I think.
    That is a huge IF. Are you telling me that you have seen where an apt tenant is responsible for doing plumbing repairs and is responsible for repairing the damage that water causes? Well heck, maybe he's repsonsible for doing electrical repairs too and liable for the losses when the whole building burns down.

    I think it is you that refuses to apply common sense and wants to use some statute to show your argument has an ounce of merit.

    Your position is not grounded in reality. It is just a hypothetical argument filled with "if's."

    You might be overestimating your powers of persuasion with 11 other people. But in any event I could keep you off he jury if I wanted.
    I know my power of persuasion, I've made a living off it for the last thirty years. It just doesn't work so well when I am muzzled the way lawyers like to operate. Also, you are limited on disqualifying jurors...just as you'd be limited in other areas too...like knowing how plumbing leaks occur.

    You say I ignore overreaching statutes. I say you ignore information posted here. The tenant reported this toilet leak but the owner did nothing about it. Did you forget that part or are you intentionally leaving things out hoping that I don't catch it.

    And, of course, once I pointed out to the tenant that the lease says he pays for it, the chances are very good it never makes it to trial as the tenant would recognize he'd likely lose and agree to settle the matter. Over 90% of cases filed in court never make it to trial.
    A lease will not specifically say that all plumbing repairs are to be performed by the tenant and all damages cuased by those leaks rest on the tenant. It just doesn't work that way. Besides, if damage was done, HO insurance pays. Oh, and to be exact, which you rarely are, 97% of cases settle.

    BTW - This is exactly what I saw in my trial. Two lawyers venturing far outside their expertise and using their polished skills of misleading, confusing and inferring, but never really saying anything because they are not experts about the subject matter of the trial. They are just verbal dancers who do nothing but muzzle and twist the truth.

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