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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    And oh, Mark and Mark, I have had my own problems over the years, so, what? {der} In trying to weaponize this, you have not admitted, or are hiding your own, or else you are not doing anything substantive. If I were trying a "sleight-of-hand" would I come here for input? So what are you trying to say? That I have no right to be doing what I do? That I have no right to ask for constructive advice, which I have never gotten here to this point? (except budwad's reasoned and experienced input) Is this 4th grade all over again? Is it still Amateur Hour? Tell me now boy.

    Can the adults please consider ideas for a way forward?
    No one weaponized anything. Well, no one did until now, when you did.

    While Budwad is busy making assumptions about what Mark and I may or may not know we both likely have experiences with the AHJ in question seeing as we are both from the region. Also, we didn't say that you were, in this case, doing something wrong. In fact, we said that, if you went through the plan review process then not only are the approved plans the proverbial law, they are for the inspector as well and the inspector doesn't have the authority to override the approved plans, only require correction for installation issues that either are in violation of the applicable code or don't comply with the approved drawings. The inspector is not a law unto themselves. The Chief inspector, also, answers to someone. Take it upstairs. You have all of the permits (right?), you have approved drawings and all that it entails, you have a workable complaint so do as Bud suggests.

    Exceeding what's in drawings and what is covered in permits is old hat in construction and if you've been involved with construction for any length of time you should know that. No one said you shouldn't be asking for advice, that you shouldn't be doing what you're doing or anything else. You chose to attack us. I've done design work for industrial and commercial projects in Snohomish, King, Pierce and Thurston counties and their relevant municipalities and various REAs, SCL, PSE, PUDs, MSHA, USCG, etc. I've tangled with inspectors, chief inspectors, commissioners and it's no fun. I also know that when it comes time to sue that everything grinds to a halt. For myself, I've worked in large multi million government contracts, mines, subdivision electrical infrastructure renovations and more. I've done my time. I don't know the other Mark but I've read enough of his posts to know that he has as well. You, on the other hand, are only known by your posting history. If you post like your a drunk at a bar it will color our perception of you and with the above quote you strike me as a drunk at a bar.

    So, do what you want. Drop your project into a black hole by bringing lawyers into it or deal with the chief inspector and his boss...he does have one. If you have a go at this with a chip on your shoulder you're the one who'll suffer. Or, gather your evidence, permits, plans, etc and go have a well mannered and cooperative sit down. See what can be done to appease whomever needs to be appeased. It's not the guy in a pickup, he's not the one you need to worry about. An example: I had an inspector who wouldn't sign off on a final inspection because he didn't like one of the disconnect switches on a chiller. I tried to work with him, had him out 3 times. Eventually I called his boss and had him come out. He scratched his head and couldn't figure out what his inspector was going on about and signed it off. This was a small tenant improvement project in Tukwila, which tend to be a bit seat of the pants, but it showcases that the inspector can be overridden and applies when you have an argument with the chief inspector inspector for NAVPAC as well.

    So, there it is. 25 years of dealing with building departments and other AHJs boiled down. Play nice because even if you win a lawsuit they still come and inspect and when they're done there are still other inspectors. and more inspectors.

    Don't let the door hit you in the posterior on the way out.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  2. #12

    Default Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
    View Post
    No one weaponized anything. Well, no one did until now, when you did.

    While Budwad is busy making assumptions about what Mark and I may or may not know we both likely have experiences with the AHJ in question seeing as we are both from the region. Also, we didn't say that you were, in this case, doing something wrong. In fact, we said that, if you went through the plan review process then not only are the approved plans the proverbial law, they are for the inspector as well and the inspector doesn't have the authority to override the approved plans, only require correction for installation issues that either are in violation of the applicable code or don't comply with the approved drawings. The inspector is not a law unto themselves. The Chief inspector, also, answers to someone. Take it upstairs. You have all of the permits (right?), you have approved drawings and all that it entails, you have a workable complaint so do as Bud suggests.

    Exceeding what's in drawings and what is covered in permits is old hat in construction and if you've been involved with construction for any length of time you should know that. No one said you shouldn't be asking for advice, that you shouldn't be doing what you're doing or anything else. You chose to attack us. I've done design work for industrial and commercial projects in Snohomish, King, Pierce and Thurston counties and their relevant municipalities and various REAs, SCL, PSE, PUDs, MSHA, USCG, etc. I've tangled with inspectors, chief inspectors, commissioners and it's no fun. I also know that when it comes time to sue that everything grinds to a halt. For myself, I've worked in large multi million government contracts, mines, subdivision electrical infrastructure renovations and more. I've done my time. I don't know the other Mark but I've read enough of his posts to know that he has as well. You, on the other hand, are only known by your posting history. If you post like your a drunk at a bar it will color our perception of you and with the above quote you strike me as a drunk at a bar.

    So, do what you want. Drop your project into a black hole by bringing lawyers into it or deal with the chief inspector and his boss...he does have one. If you have a go at this with a chip on your shoulder you're the one who'll suffer. Or, gather your evidence, permits, plans, etc and go have a well mannered and cooperative sit down. See what can be done to appease whomever needs to be appeased. It's not the guy in a pickup, he's not the one you need to worry about. An example: I had an inspector who wouldn't sign off on a final inspection because he didn't like one of the disconnect switches on a chiller. I tried to work with him, had him out 3 times. Eventually I called his boss and had him come out. He scratched his head and couldn't figure out what his inspector was going on about and signed it off. This was a small tenant improvement project in Tukwila, which tend to be a bit seat of the pants, but it showcases that the inspector can be overridden and applies when you have an argument with the chief inspector inspector for NAVPAC as well.

    So, there it is. 25 years of dealing with building departments and other AHJs boiled down. Play nice because even if you win a lawsuit they still come and inspect and when they're done there are still other inspectors. and more inspectors.

    Don't let the door hit you in the posterior on the way out.
    Wow. You clearly have no idea about development, Mark47n, and apparently not an education. (bolded)

    There is no Chief Inspector in this case. As explained if you read my OP carefully, I have worked my way specifically up the chain of command. This is not my first rodeo. IMHO you and the other Mark are just mouths.

    'Nuff said.

    So is this just a place to piss on others? Particularly others who are vulnerable? If so, despicable. If not, you Marks can butt out.

  3. #13
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    Talking Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    I suspect that other posters don't know what a utility authority formed by law is. It is not the water company or the sewer company of a municipality. Assuming you are speaking of an authority formed by law
    Iím not sure why you made that assumption of what we know.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    Quote Quoting quantumn
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    Wow. You clearly have no idea about development, Mark47n, and apparently not an education. (bolded)

    There is no Chief Inspector in this case. As explained if you read my OP carefully, I have worked my way specifically up the chain of command. This is not my first rodeo. IMHO you and the other Mark are just mouths.

    'Nuff said.

    So is this just a place to piss on others? Particularly others who are vulnerable? If so, despicable. If not, you Marks can butt out.
    A typo is what you want to bust my chops about?

    You are the one who's done the pissing, not me. I laid out clearly that there is always someone upstairs and I've even concurred that suing may be the route to take but simply suggested that it may be premature. If this is how you deal with people, though, I can see how you're having problems. You're free to dismiss what I've said out of hand. I don't care, I've got no skin in the game, but it's is, again indicative of what I wrote earlier about drunks at bars, Drunky McPukeshoes.

    I get the impression that you intend to go up against the Powers that Be alone. Where's your attorney in all of this? If this is a development there are significant funds tied up in it and, presumably, investors. How would they feel with you handling this all by your lonesome?

    To emphasize, by the way, because you don't really say what's at issue here explicitly, having approved drawings doesn't supersede the building/utility codes. If the issue is an approved project being improperly constructed then it's possible the AHJ has a legitimate complaint.

    It's not my first rodeo, either, by the way. I just chose to not be the one getting chased by the bull while wearing makeup.

    I read your OP again and I have one final suggestion: get an attorney. Your silver tongue isn't the one that should be doing the talking.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  5. #15
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    Quote Quoting MaltbyMark
    View Post
    Iím not sure why you made that assumption of what we know.
    Because it was clear to me from OP that he was dealing with a utility authority and some of the responses sounded like some may not have realized that.

    That OP may have been dealing with a city or municipality. No slight intended.

    Quote Quoting quantumn
    View Post
    I'll be doing this pro se.
    Why? You have a multi-million dollar project that is at a standstill and you don't want your attorney to handle it? Did you bring your project all the way through the approval process yourself?

    I would think about that if I were you. Unless of course you are an attorney.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    Because it was clear to me from OP that he was dealing with a utility authority and some of the responses sounded like some may not have realized that.
    Most water and sewer districts in Washington are utility authorities, and in fact most water districts are separate entities from the sewer district, but that can vary. Since there were only two respondents, I think your assumption was incorrect.
    There are water and sewer systems that have been captured by either the city and/or the county, and there are systems in Snohomish county that supply both services.
    We don't even really know the scope of the entire job, is this a SFR development or a single multi-family? And where is the sewer they are trying to hit? Are they running a new main in the street they are building? Or just a bunch of side sewers (what we call side-sewers you probably call a lateral).

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    OP is speaking of the water supply not sewer service. And since OP said that this was a multi-million dollar project, I doubt we are talking about anything less than a multi-dwelling development.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    OP is speaking of the water supply not sewer service.
    Where do you get that?

    Quote Quoting quantumn
    View Post
    I am the owner of a housing development and have had endless problems with the local water authority, which oversees water and sewer installs.
    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    And since OP said that this was a multi-million dollar project, I doubt we are talking about anything less than a multi-dwelling development.
    Where did I say he wasn't? I tried to say that we don't know if it is a development of SFRs or a big multifamily.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    Quote Quoting MaltbyMark
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    We don't even really know the scope of the entire job, is this a SFR development or a single multi-family?
    It's pointless to continue this. Have a nice day.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Municipal Water District Blocks Housing Project, Contravenes Own Engineer

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    It's pointless to continue this. Have a nice day.
    Tell people they're wrong and then bail when it's pointed out that actually it's you

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