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  1. #11
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    Jun 2006
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    Default Re: Preparing for Gender Discrimination in Job Hunt

    While it is true that gender discrimination is illegal in the private sector, it is also very difficult to prove. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's damned difficult. Particularly since, as I said above, there's a 50% chance of a different gender every time you flip the coin. It's not easy to pull out one factor and say, There. That proves that if not for the fact that I'm male/female, I would definitely have gotten that job.

  2. #12
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Preparing for Gender Discrimination in Job Hunt

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    No I'm not but perhaps you are. Maybe not but you are a dope none the less.

    I base my answer on the law. If you have something to post that shows I'm incorrect, post it. Otherwise shut up.
    Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

    SEC. 2000e-2. [Section 703]

    (a) Employer practices

    It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer -

    (1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;

  3. #13
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Preparing for Gender Discrimination in Job Hunt

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    Go ahead and prove that an employer failed to hire someone based on gender rather then on qualifications or any other criteria of the employer that is not discriminatory under the law. If a candidate must be able to lift 80 Lbs. and no candidates can except males, is that gender discrimination?
    Bud, it is very clearly the law that a business may not refuse to hire a candidate because of his/her sex. Whether the plaintiff can prove that is why he or she was not hired is, of course, a different matter. In any case there are, of course, going to be issues of proof for the plaintiff to meet.

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    In every MA case I looked at, the plaintiff was already an employee not a candidate for employment.
    Did you look at any federal cases? It was very easy for me to find federal cases involving applicants suing for sex discrimination. My search came up with over 1,000 such cases. In case in which a woman applicant sued for sex discrimination where the employer refused to consider women because they believed women could not meet their lifting requirement (the example you put forth), a federal appeals court held against the employer, stating:

    We conclude that the principle of nondiscrimination requires that we hold that in order to rely on the bona fide occupational qualification exception an employer has the burden of proving that he had reasonable cause to believe, that is, a factual basis for believing, that all or substantially all women would be unable to perform safely and efficiently the duties of the job involved.

    Southern Bell has clearly not met that burden here. They introduced no evidence concerning the lifting abilities of women. Rather, they would have us ‘assume,’ on the basis of a ‘stereotyped characterization’ that few or no women can safely lift 30 pounds, while all men are treated as if they can. While one might accept, arguendo, that men are stronger on the average than women, it is not clear that any conclusions about relative lifting ability would follow. This is because it can be argued tenably that technique is as important as strength in determining lifting ability. Technique is hardly a function of sex. What does seem clear is that using these class stereotypes denies desirable positions to a great many women perfectly capable of performing the duties involved.

    Weeks v. S. Bell Tel. & Tel. Co., 408 F.2d 228, 235–36 (5th Cir. 1969). That case is 50 years old, so it has been quite clear that the law bars discrimination of job applicants based on sex for half a century, and also that requirements like lifting won't allow an employer to prefer men over women in the job. Such job qualifications must be bona fide requirements of the job and women applicants must be given the opportunity to prove they can meet those requirements.

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    Find a case if you can.
    Well, I just gave you one. Can you find one post Civil Rights Act of 1964 that supports your position that

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    ...gender discrimination may apply within a company when considering a promotion but it does not apply to getting a job unless you are part of say the civil service sector where there are rankings and a more qualified candidate was bypassed because of gender.

    An employer can hire whomever they want that is qualified for the job irrelevant of the gender.
    I'll save you some searching time. I've studied the Civil Rights Act and other federal laws on equal employment for a number of years and I can tell you there is no federal court case post Civil Rights Act that backs your position.

    Are you going to dig in, as you've done in the past, and insist you are right (and perhaps toss out insults along the way) even in the face of the statute and case law which proves you wrong, or will you for once simply admit you got it wrong?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Preparing for Gender Discrimination in Job Hunt

    I just finished reading the three cases posted by MiddlePart. I understand that that an employer can't discriminate based on the protected classes and already knew that. The first two cases where remanded back to the lower court on very narrow grounds. The MA case was clearly gender discrimination (the evidence showed). If the senior partner hadn't said what he said at the meeting and kept the discussion about performance, there would have been no case. But here again, the plaintiff was already an employee when discriminated against and the partner was an idiot. In the case you cited, again the plaintiff was already an employee.

    What I took away from these cases is that an employer can't make generalization about one gender over another in the course of hiring. However, the employer can have job related qualifications that can defeat any claim of discrimination. Thus, if the applicant must, in the course of their employment be able to lift an 80 Lb box, the applicant should be tested to see if they can do it rather than the employer only considering men over women.

    What may seem like gender discrimination may be a simple case of qualification when it comes to getting hired. An applicant to be a firefighter has to pass a physical test before even being allowed to apply for the job.

    Proving discrimination in hiring is very hard to prove. I would like to read a case where plaintiff was successful in a cold hiring case.

    What struck me about OP's original post is that they are on a mission rather than getting a job. It would be interesting to learn what job they are seeking and what their gender is.

    And one last note; I don't toss out insults until insulted.

  5. #15
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    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Preparing for Gender Discrimination in Job Hunt

    What may seem like gender discrimination may be a simple case of qualification when it comes to getting hired. An applicant to be a firefighter has to pass a physical test before even being allowed to apply for the job.

    Proving discrimination in hiring is very hard to prove.

    What struck me about OP's original post is that they are on a mission rather than getting a job. It would be interesting to learn what job they are seeking and what their gender is.


    OP, Bud and I do not always agree but ^^^^THIS. Read it several times. Think about it. Carry it away with you.

  6. #16
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Preparing for Gender Discrimination in Job Hunt

    I really don't get your point.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Preparing for Gender Discrimination in Job Hunt

    I'm agreeing with you, Bud. Strange but true. I am advising the OP to take your words to heart.

    Merry Christmas.

  8. #18
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Preparing for Gender Discrimination in Job Hunt

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    Proving discrimination in hiring is very hard to prove. I would like to read a case where plaintiff was successful in a cold hiring case.
    Proving it is difficult, certainly. But it has happened. I cited for you a case in which the plaintiff was indeed successful in doing just that. I can give you others, too. Just because it is not easy does not mean it is impossible. Most employers today are smart enough not to say or document anything that would make it obvious that they rejected the applicant based on sex. So in most cases today the successful plaintiff has to dig deeper to prove the discrimination, like proving a pattern of conduct by the employer that can only be explained by discrimination. But with the right evidence plaintiffs can and do succeed.

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    And one last note; I don't toss out insults until insulted.
    That has not always been the case, Bud, but I hope that's the case now. Merry Christmas!

  9. #19
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Preparing for Gender Discrimination in Job Hunt

    Merry Christmas to you and cbg and to all the other members. I hope next year will be a happy, healthy, and prosperous year for all of you.

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