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  1. #1
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    Dec 2019
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    pennsylvania
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    Default Return of Payments for Warranty Written on an Electric Vehicle

    My question involves a consumer law [warranty] issue in the State of: pennsylvania

    a refusal of a nationally known third party vehicle warrantor to pay a legitimate warranty issue invites the warranted party to cancel the policy requesting a full refund for the policy written. in the contract there exists a statement that all monies would be returned if an ineligible vehicle was mistakenly warranted.

    Upon receipt of the letter for cancellation [for reasons that this is a vehicle not covered] the warrantor chooses to issue a partial refund for days not warranted instead, the difference being about two thousand dollars.

    what legal statement would be advisable, how would it be worded to encourage the insurer to return all the payments?

    in other words: NO claims were made until the first claim was made and that was refused. It was for an issue where the original oem warranty claims are paid routinely. the refusal to pay the claim prompted the cancellation of the policy on the grounds that it was never a warranty, ie was an incorrectly written warranty that would likely never pay out on any claim .

    How to get a return of all the payments vs a return of the policy payments for the unused time?

    half the policy period had passed [no issues] between opening time and expiring time of a four thousand dollar policy. the company returned two thousand dollars. The insured wants all four thousand dollars returned because no claims including the refused claim were ever paid. While never paying one cent the third party warrantor kept two thousand dollars of the insured's money.

    Interestingly and perhaps pertinent to the issue is that this is a company that warrants Motor Vehicles with internal combustion engines and the insured has an Electric Vehicle . Many of the warranty statements concerning what's covered and what's not covered are parts that do not exist in the electric vehicle. the item refused for example was for an oem installed in-dash-computer display. [the main controlling touch screen computer display for the vehicle] [one thousand dollars including labor]. A part not commonly installed in an ordinary internal combustion engine vehicle. Their original refusal stated that this claim was for a part not covered under their policy. It is however central to the operation of an electric vehicle, and most vehicles made today have a prominent one mounted within the dash. The dealer ordered the part and was ready to install it when the refusal came and it was not installed. It has a known defect that, when occurring, prompts routine replacement under the oem warranty.


    thanks for considering and for your comments.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    6,662

    Default Re: Return of Payments for Warranty Written on an Electric Vehicle

    Permit me to guess that this third-party warranty policy was sold to you by the dealer when you bought the car. I will further guess that this may be CarShield or one of their subsidiaries. If that is the case, it is the dealer that knows if the warranty company covers your electric car before they sell you the policy. But the dealer will write the policy knowing it does not cover your car because they get commission on the policy and in some cases never send the application in and just pocket the money. But since you apparently have a policy and are being denied coverage, your policy was paid for.

    These third-party companies bank on you not using your warranty. And when you do try to use it will find any exclusion or say the work was not preauthorized . Now if I understand your post, the display in your console went bad and they say they will not pay to replace it because your car is electric (they don't cover electric cars). Replacing the dash display has nothing to do with the car being electric. There are displays in all cars today.

    Your dealer would have known if your policy covered your car. So your beef is with not only the warranty company but with the dealer that sold you the policy as well.

    The wording to the warranty company should be something like,"you issued a policy on an electric car that is not covered by your warranty. That is fraud. I want a full refund because if this happened when I took out your policy, you would not have covered it from day one."

    A question you could asK the warranty company is what do you cover on my car?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    pennsylvania
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    2

    Default Re: Return of Payments for Warranty Written on an Electric Vehicle

    You are correct, it is Carshield, and Autoshield is also mentioned there in the contract.
    i am welcoming of your ideas and drafting this:


    *****************************************
    Carshield Administrator,
    It appears that "you issued a policy on my electric car that is not
    covered by your warranty." That might be construed by some as fraud. I want a
    full refund because you would not have covered this issue from day one--[that I
    brought to you properly, seeking prior authorization. in the form of a claim request]
    on day 385.

    I don't believe you cover fully electric cars at all and this policy
    should be considered erroneous.
    Your policy contract states that,
    "IF IT IS DISCOVERED THAT A CONTRACT IS ERRANTLY SOLD TO YOU ON
    AN INELIGIBLE VEHICLE, THEN A FULL REFUND OF THE COST OF THE
    CONTRACT SHALL BE MADE TO YOU"

    It's my opinion, and that of my counsel, that this discovery has taken place.

    Furthermore the policy states, that "Any legal dispute between [the policy
    holder] and the ADMINISTRATOR relating to this CONTRACT may be resolved by
    arbitration. ..."
    and instructions follow.
    "In the event of litigation involving this CONTRACT..." etc.

    I am in receipt of the partial refund you have offered for my initial request
    for a full refund on an errant policy for an exotic electric vehicle.... I am now
    requesting a refund of the remainder of the policy premium for all the reasons
    stated.

    A proper request for authorization of a warranted OEM product due to issues of
    glue failure, leakage, and subsequent need for legitimate replacement, was
    declined by ADMINISTRATOR [when rightly authorized by the dealer.] The
    dealer's warranty [which my Carshield policy attempts to replace] does cover
    this part, and does so often,
    and under every circumstance in which it presents
    itself. I conclude this warranty is in no way such a replacement as was hoped.
    And by your actions and denial of claim payment you have shown your agreement.
    Kindly return the remainder of my payments which you have had claim-
    free, and interest-free, all these months.

    signed, _________, dated, ___________

    *****************************************


    What does Expert Law think of this response?

    Amendments and suggestions welcome.
    thanks to budwad for correct surmises and suggested wording.

    daveyjane

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Return of Payments for Warranty Written on an Electric Vehicle

    The insurance provider did not commit fraud because they did not write the contract. If anybody did it was the dealership but that is easily explained away as a mistake on their part. You’ll lose on any fraud argument.

    just because something on your car isn’t covered doesn’t mean it doesn’t cover other items. As long as something was covered, it wasn’t an ineligible vehicle. An ineligible vehicle means simply the insurance provider does not offer a policy for that vehicle. It may be a nearly useless policy but that doesn’t make the contract void from the start. It just means you paid for a policy that offers you very little coverage.


    so, to prevail you will have to show that the provider did not offer a policy on your make and model of vehicle.

    as to them not covering something you believe the policy states it does cover: that is simply an argument on that one point. If they state they will cover it but refuse to, that is simply a matter of contract law just as where many insurance policy holders were refused payment on a claim they believed was valid. Refusal to cover that one item wouldn’t deem the vehicle an ineligible vehicle if other items were covered. If the item needing replacement was excluded from the warranty coverage, you really have no argument at all. Did you read the policy prior to purchasing it?

  5. #5
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    Mar 2013
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    17,475

    Default Re: Return of Payments for Warranty Written on an Electric Vehicle

    Quote Quoting daveyjane
    View Post

    What does Expert Law think of this response?
    No one at Expert Law can give you any kind of meaningful response without reading your policy in its entirety.

  6. #6
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Return of Payments for Warranty Written on an Electric Vehicle

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    The insurance provider did not commit fraud because they did not write the contract. If anybody did it was the dealership but that is easily explained away as a mistake on their part. You’ll lose on any fraud argument.
    I disagree that warranty company didn't commit fraud. The contract application that the dealers use is in fact from the warranty company and not a dealership contract. It requires the VIN which would show that the car was electric and thus not covered.

    The dealer fills out the application and send it to the warranty company along with your payment less their commission. The warranty company reviews it and issues the policy. The policy number is already pre-printed on the application along with the terms and the effective date. How do I know this? Because I am looking at the contract I received when I bought my 2013 Silverado. And I know the scams they run first hand.

    The contract is 5 pages long. For example definition of covered parts: The contract provides mechanical breakdown coverage for the repair or replacement of all factory installed mechanical and electrical operating parts on the approved vehicle.

    So your position is that the warranty company is not the party that the buyer contracted with because an authorized agent of the warranty company filled out the application? My contract has nothing to do with the dealer. The dealer's name is not in the four corners of the contract. The dealer is an agent of the warranty company. The contract is between me and the warranty company.

    So I can assume that since I know which warranty company the OP got his contract from the situation is similar to mine and his contract is with the warranty company, not the dealer. And when I had problems and contacted the dealer, I was always told they are not in the loop. It was between me and the warranty company.

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    No one at Expert Law can give you any kind of meaningful response without reading your policy in its entirety.
    I have their contract in front of me.

  7. #7
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Return of Payments for Warranty Written on an Electric Vehicle

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    I disagree that warranty company didn't commit fraud. The contract application that the dealers use is in fact from the warranty company and not a dealership contract. It requires the VIN which would show that the car was electric and thus not covered.

    The dealer fills out the application and send it to the warranty company along with your payment less their commission. The warranty company reviews it and issues the policy. The policy number is already pre-printed on the application along with the terms and the effective date. How do I know this? Because I am looking at the contract I received when I bought my 2013 Silverado. And I know the scams they run first hand.

    The contract is 5 pages long. For example definition of covered parts: The contract provides mechanical breakdown coverage for the repair or replacement of all factory installed mechanical and electrical operating parts on the approved vehicle.

    So your position is that the warranty company is not the party that the buyer contracted with because an authorized agent of the warranty company filled out the application? My contract has nothing to do with the dealer. The dealer's name is not in the four corners of the contract. The dealer is an agent of the warranty company. The contract is between me and the warranty company.

    So I can assume that since I know which warranty company the OP got his contract from the situation is similar to mine and his contract is with the warranty company, not the dealer. And when I had problems and contacted the dealer, I was always told they are not in the loop. It was between me and the warranty company.



    I have their contract in front of me.
    The dealer is who effectively wrote the contract. It is a pre-printed contract but the car dealer is who is selling the policy and making the statements inserted into the policy and who has the decision at the moment at hand to determine if the car is a valid insurable item. They acted as the insurers agent. While you might be able to link the issue to the insurer through that, I suspect there is something within the contact itself that the insurer can use to disclaim improper actions by the dealer. Most likely limiting the insurer to nothing more than refunding the premium if the policy is not enforceable.


    as it stands we,haven’t seen that the policy is actually invalid. It’s been stated that so far the only issue is the op was refused coverage on an issue they believe should be covered.

    Even on car shields best policy I see myriad exclusions, many of which would be covered under the oem warranty during the oem warranty period. The ops argument that his claim would have been covered under the oem warranty is meaningless. What matters is whether it was covered or excluded under the carshield warranty. So far he hasn’t stated that it was a covered item under the carshield warranty, only the oem warranty.

    I also see nothing excluding electric vehicles from coverage. I might have missed it but so far I haven’t seen it.

  8. #8
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    Mar 2013
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    17,475

    Default Re: Return of Payments for Warranty Written on an Electric Vehicle

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post

    I have their contract in front of me.
    So do I. OP uploaded a copy for me on another site (after I made that last comment). I took the time to read the policy. Here's my response to the OP.

    You cancelled the policy because you believed that the Tesla was not an eligible vehicle in the first place. I find nothing in the policy or anywhere on the internet to suggest that it wasn't eligible for the policy.

    Your assertion that the car was ineligible because most of the parts listed are not present on your vehicle is erroneous. I see 10 categories of parts listed with at least 7, maybe 8 of those categories applying to your car. Omitting cooling system (though I think Tesla has one), fuel delivery, and turbo charger, leaves 7. 7 out of 10 is "most." Which means that most of the parts on your car ARE covered.

    The cancellation provision of the policy is clear. You get a pro-rated refund, which you got.

    Your dispute should have addressed whether or not the part was covered. Unfortunately, the policy is also clear that ONLY the listed parts are covered. If a part is not specifically listed, it's not covered. I don't see "touch screen" listed.

    My conclusion, for the two cents that it's worth, is that you won't get any more money out of that company for the cancellation, no matter what you write.
    OP is free to arbitrate his belief that the touch screen should be covered. I think that's the only route left to him since arbitration is specified in the policy.

    by the way, I noticed that OP had 30 days to cancel the policy for a full refund. Had he read it when he got it he might have seen its disadvantages and could have dumped it then.

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