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  1. #51
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Why don't you do one thing to show that you even read this stuff? Go back and quote where I said the defense attorney was "dumb." Or where I quoted the defense attorney as saying "there was no injury."

    After that you might be deserving of a response.
    you said opposing counsel stated there is no evidence of an injury. Well, if there is no evidence of an injury there is a implication there was no injury.

    and if you want to get really picky; I didn’t place the words: there is no injury, in quotes (taxing matters did though post 47. There again you show your lack of attention to detail) That means imdid not write it as a exact quote.


    since you want to be picky, now it’s your turn to show me where I said you said opposing counsel was dumb. I didn’t.


    And truthfully I couldn’t care less if you grace me with a response or not. You’re the one whining about how dirty lawyers are. As for me, I’m pretty happy with the 6 figure award I got from my suit.



    And by the way; yes, you did say your doctor was dragged into being an expert witness
    Even my surgeon who is a regular expert witness for the defense 75% of the time thinks very little of our court system because he is dragged in to swim in that sewer.



    post 24


    maybe you need to take your own advice and read not only what others write, but what you yourself write.

    As to your doctor being disgusted: unless he has some weird fetish, it’s a simple conclusion that he is disgusted by the system which was compared to swimming in a sewer. Maybe you don’t see swimming a sewer as disgusting. I believe most people would.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    What I also learned from this nightmare is that some folks have no morals and will counter and discredit whatever anyone says. Lawyers work at doing that to perfectly good people which is why I say they work in the sewer. Greed, misrepresenting, mischaracterizing, lying, and misleading at its lowest. I have a whole new low for lawyers now, whether what they do is legal or not. I don't care, they are scum. Lawyer should never be used in the same sentence as doctor.
    You are bitter that you lost your case. I can understand that. Of course you felt you had a good case and thought you should have won or you'd not have pursued it. But the jury disagreed with you. That happens. And I guarantee you it wasn't because the opposing lawyer said in closing argument that you had "no injury". The jury looks at everything presented in the case. If your lawyer presented compelling evidence in the trial, that is what would persuade the jury.

    While you say you understand the rules for closing argument, I really don't think you do based on what you have said here. The lawyer is free to make argument as to what the evidence presented means. That argument is not testimony. The lawyer is free to tell the jury to discount the evidence of injury, to say it didn't prove what you say it proves. I'm absolutely sure he said more about the evidence of injury other than just a one liner about there being "no injury". At least he would have if he was any good. Bear in mind that the lawyer for the defense was obligated to do everything that he could within the rules to zealously represent his client and defend the case. Of course you'd not like that. You're not supposed to like it. But each side gets its chance to make its case to the jury. That the jury decided against you is certainly disappointing for you but does not mean the system is rotten.

    As a I said before, your experience in one case or even a couple of cases does not necessarily represent how other cases in your own area go, much less how things work in every other part of the country.

    Hate lawyers if you want based on how your case turned out, but that's certainly not a logical reaction.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    Quote Quoting jk
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    you said opposing counsel stated there is no evidence of an injury. Well, if there is no evidence of an injury there is a implication there was no injury.

    and if you want to get really picky; I didn’t place the words: there is no injury, in quotes (taxing matters did though post 47. There again you show your lack of attention to detail) That means imdid not write it as a exact quote.

    since you want to be picky, now it’s your turn to show me where I said you said opposing counsel was dumb. I didn’t.

    And truthfully I couldn’t care less if you grace me with a response or not. You’re the one whining about how dirty lawyers are. As for me, I’m pretty happy with the 6 figure award I got from my suit.

    And by the way; yes, you did say your doctor was dragged into being an expert witness

    [/I][/COLOR]

    post 24

    maybe you need to take your own advice and read not only what others write, but what you yourself write.

    As to your doctor being disgusted: unless he has some weird fetish, it’s a simple conclusion that he is disgusted by the system which was compared to swimming in a sewer. Maybe you don’t see swimming a sewer as disgusting. I believe most people would.
    You failed on all accounts so therefore you won't mind that we part ways.

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    You are bitter that you lost your case. I can understand that. Of course you felt you had a good case and thought you should have won or you'd not have pursued it. But the jury disagreed with you. That happens. And I guarantee you it wasn't because the opposing lawyer said in closing argument that you had "no injury". The jury looks at everything presented in the case. If your lawyer presented compelling evidence in the trial, that is what would persuade the jury.

    While you say you understand the rules for closing argument, I really don't think you do based on what you have said here. The lawyer is free to make argument as to what the evidence presented means. That argument is not testimony. The lawyer is free to tell the jury to discount the evidence of injury, to say it didn't prove what you say it proves. I'm absolutely sure he said more about the evidence of injury other than just a one liner about there being "no injury". At least he would have if he was any good. Bear in mind that the lawyer for the defense was obligated to do everything that he could within the rules to zealously represent his client and defend the case. Of course you'd not like that. You're not supposed to like it. But each side gets its chance to make its case to the jury. That the jury decided against you is certainly disappointing for you but does not mean the system is rotten.

    As a I said before, your experience in one case or even a couple of cases does not necessarily represent how other cases in your own area go, much less how things work in every other part of the country.

    Hate lawyers if you want based on how your case turned out, but that's certainly not a logical reaction.
    Thanks for trying to shed light on this for me but I will continue to dislike, fear and distrust attorneys. They have refined the ability to change what you say, apply counter remarks that confuse and mislead an issue, therefore advancing from pure deception. I witnessed this despicable art from deposition to verdict. And I guarantee I am a very logical person who comes from a family of engineers.

    I was able to read this guy from the way he spoke to me, my counsel and others. Watching him control the conversation during the mandatory settlement conference, he was full of himself. He lost his temper twice during the deposition when I gave him next to nothing to sink his teeth into. Yet he still took depo comments hugely out of context, edited the content and presented them in powerpoint to the jury. He was a very ambitious, young, smart guy and he knew exactly what he was doing. It was pure deception and pure evil. No other way to interpret it. There are evil people in my line of work and there are in yours too.

    The bold lies from the witnesses came from his prepping of them. He was extremely thorough and had zero morals. He operated from self and nothing else. He was also very quick tongued when he snapped at my co-counsel once. Anything it took to win was his obvious motto.

    BTW, I am an independent contractor and was offered a medium sized job from an attorney two weeks ago. I turned it down because I won't work or expose myself to one again.

    Of course every statement I made above can be responded to in lawyer fashion, but what happened is how I interpret it. Those that don't agree with me can make their excuses for what they think happened but I am the one who was left with a permanent dislike for attorneys. I hope I never see that sewer again.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    There are evil people in my line of work and there are in yours too.
    You seem set in your views and not open to change, so I'll not try to persuade you otherwise except to comment on your statement above. If I had run into one of the bad apples in your line of work and felt completely disgusted by what I saw and told you that because of my one bad experience with people in your line of work that I thought that every one in that line of work were "scum" and "work in the sewer", what would you say? Would you agree with me that everyone (including yourself) in that line of work are scum? Or even that most of them in that line of work are scum? Or would you say that, while my experience was unfortunate, that one bad apple does not represent you and most of the others in your line of work?

    You say that you are logical person and come from a family of engineers. So put on that logic cap and ask yourself if it is logical to believe that all lawyers are scum based on one bad experience with one opposing lawyer? Would you say that if you had one cell phone (or any other product you can think of) that was bad out of the box that must mean that all units of that same product must be bad? I think logically you know that just because one is bad it does not tell you anything about how bad or good the others are. It may make you wary of that product until you have more information, sure, but if you are applying logic you could not reasonably conclude after experience with one product out of hundreds of thousands or millions that all of them, or even most of them, are bad. And if you apply that same logic to your experience with that lawyer you should reach the same logical conclusion: that the one bad experience does not necessarily reflect on how all other lawyers are.

    I realize it can be hard to set aside your emotional response sometimes and simply look at it logically. And perhaps you are too emotionally invested in that case to be able to do it. That's a very human reaction to a bad experience. But if you can set that emotion aside and apply the logic that you have I think you'll see the merit of what I'm saying.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    And if the opposing lawyer was representing OP and won the case, his tactics would no doubt be acceptable.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    You seem set in your views and not open to change, so I'll not try to persuade you otherwise except to comment on your statement above. If I had run into one of the bad apples in your line of work and felt completely disgusted by what I saw and told you that because of my one bad experience with people in your line of work that I thought that every one in that line of work were "scum" and "work in the sewer", what would you say? Would you agree with me that everyone (including yourself) in that line of work are scum? Or even that most of them in that line of work are scum? Or would you say that, while my experience was unfortunate, that one bad apple does not represent you and most of the others in your line of work?

    You say that you are logical person and come from a family of engineers. So put on that logic cap and ask yourself if it is logical to believe that all lawyers are scum based on one bad experience with one opposing lawyer? Would you say that if you had one cell phone (or any other product you can think of) that was bad out of the box that must mean that all units of that same product must be bad? I think logically you know that just because one is bad it does not tell you anything about how bad or good the others are. It may make you wary of that product until you have more information, sure, but if you are applying logic you could not reasonably conclude after experience with one product out of hundreds of thousands or millions that all of them, or even most of them, are bad. And if you apply that same logic to your experience with that lawyer you should reach the same logical conclusion: that the one bad experience does not necessarily reflect on how all other lawyers are.

    I realize it can be hard to set aside your emotional response sometimes and simply look at it logically. And perhaps you are too emotionally invested in that case to be able to do it. That's a very human reaction to a bad experience. But if you can set that emotion aside and apply the logic that you have I think you'll see the merit of what I'm saying.
    After witnessing my trial I do not think that every attorney is scum. I think they have the potential to be scum and it is a hidden talent to fear. I watched a man put together a group of witnesses solely to influence a jury. It had nothing to do with what was right or wrong. It was solely to do anything to win a case. He possessed talents that were remarkable and dangerous...especially in the highly restrictive protocols and procedures of a courtroom. I was muzzled due to my inability to speak candidly while I watched his lying witnesses make me into the bad guy.

    Most jokes are based on truth. The rampant lawyer jokes are also based on truth. Like: "How do you know a lawyer is lying...his lips are moving." It is not factual, but it could be true. Well, my line of work makes contact and does 10-50 times the deals with people than lawyers do and I guarantee there are not the jokes about folks like me. Why, because of incidents like mine where the desire to win and the rampant lying are commonplace in your industry. We see shows like Dateline that proves that lawyers take people's lives all because they knew they could close a case and get a conviction. Then, to sleep at night, they say "well, I didn't do it, the jury did." Knowing all well that the jury is highly suggestible and is typically made of the first 12 people in a Walmart line. Also, you have been highly schooled and trained how to use advanced techniques to influence and persuade people. I saw it and it was disgusting.

    Back to your examples: I equate your profession to anyone else who is potentially very dangerous like a UFC Fighter, a gang member or a mentally unstable person. Would you walk up to any of those folks and press an issue if you were being outright wronged. If they called your wife a b*tch or you a punk? I doubt it because, even thought all those folks are not unstable, they posses the ability and possibly the likeliness to hurt you badly. They could be one of those folks that was willing to use his talents against you, much like a lawyer could.

    If a lawyer chose to not pay me after a job there would be nothing I could do if the job was around $10K or less. I would be no match if he lacked morals and if I had to take the issue into his arena, the courtroom. It is much like you avoiding contact or conflict with a UFC Fighter, a gang member or a half cocked crazy person.

    All animals on this planet observe terrible events in front of them, stereotype the players, and avoid those situations in the future for their own survival. Political correctness plays no part in survival.

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    And if the opposing lawyer was representing OP and won the case, his tactics would no doubt be acceptable.
    Nice to see that you condone lying in the courtroom too. Otherwise, where is your objection to it?

    I've read your posts and you're one of the sharpest guys here, but listen to what you just said. That I am likely the same POS as the defense council even though you have no basis for that accusation. That I am also out to win using any deceptive trick available. So tell me, what is your basis for assuming that?

    This comment is exactly what I am talking about. Assuming you are a lawyer, your comment would sway 90% of the public even though it is total fabrication. And yes, I noticed you conveniently couched your comment with "no doubt."

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Nice to see that you condone lying in the courtroom too. Otherwise, where is your objection to it?

    I've read your posts and you're one of the sharpest guys here, but listen to what you just said. That I am likely the same POS as the defense council even though you have no basis for that accusation. That I am also out to win using any deceptive trick available. So tell me, what is your basis for assuming that?

    This comment is exactly what I am talking about. Assuming you are a lawyer, your comment would sway 90% of the public even though it is total fabrication. And yes, I noticed you conveniently couched your comment with "no doubt."
    I'm not condoning lying in the courtroom and I am not suggesting what you think I am . It was rhetorical. But if you had won the case and your lawyer may have done some questionable things, would you have told the judge that you didn't want the judgment because of those things? I think not.

    It is a matter of subjective reality and perception. If you win you overlook those digressions. And if you lose you don't and it is unjust. It depends on which side of the fence you're on in the outcome.

    You can't deny that your opponent's attorney did his job for his client.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    I'm not condoning lying in the courtroom and I am not suggesting what you think I am . It was rhetorical. But if you had won the case and your lawyer may have done some questionable things, would you have told the judge that you didn't want the judgment because of those things? I think not.

    It is a matter of subjective reality and perception. If you win you overlook those digressions. And if you lose you don't and it is unjust. It depends on which side of the fence you're on in the outcome.

    You can't deny that your opponent's attorney did his job for his client.
    Why do you assume I am very possibly a person with low ethics and morals?

    I am going to assume you are a lawyer or aspire to be an attorney. Is it because you work or admire an arena permeated with those type of people?

    I was asked going into this "what amount of money do you want to take away?" I said I don't care if it is $10K or $500K. I just do not want to lose 100% because I was wronged and I lost a function of my body because of it.

    Hint: Now is when you discredit me again in typical lawyer fashion.

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    Just curious. If it wasn't about the money and you would have accepted just about anything, did the other side refuse to negotiate any kind of settlement? Without knowing the specifics of your case, I would assume they would have offered you something to avoid the cost of trial.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Why Would a Public Defender Choice to Make Plea Bargin

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Most jokes are based on truth.
    If you believe that, then you must believe that jokes that portray African-Americans as inferior, Hispanics as lazy, Polish people as stupid, Jewish people as money grubbers, etc., are all based on truth too, right? I reject that notion because I have seen that such jokes are, in fact, not based on truth. Jokes that target particular groups of people are generally based on prejudice, bias, and misinformation or lack of information.

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    The rampant lawyer jokes are also based on truth.
    No, they are not, just as those jokes against other groups that I mentioned are not based on truth.

    You ignored the logical argument I put forward earlier and deflected it. Much like some lawyers would do. You may not be as different from most lawyers as you think. That's not an insult, by the way. Contrary to your assertion, most lawyers do not lie in the course of their representation of their clients (though some certainly do) but they are skilled in logic, argument, and persuasion. At least the good ones anyway.

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