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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    7

    Default Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Florida.

    I worked for Wal-Mart.

    I am the first and only employee at that store...probably the whole USA...to have ever been accused of theft by the way of throwing empty water bottles into the trash can, out of habit, without paying for the. It was the same trash can that nearly 100 bottles of water were thrown in that I DID paid for. I accidentally forget to pay for a few bottles of water of the weeks. The Asset Protection team labeled it theft.

    Management does not mind if an employee in Garden Center gets a bottle of water or a snack and waits to pay until break, lunch, or whenever another cashier is around. We're not allowed to ring up our own items. Almost all of my water, candy bars, chips, and energy drinks were consumed at my register and then paid for on my break or whenever another cashier was around. Same as everybody else. Most important - every cashier in garden center had witnessed me regularly pay for empty snack wrappers, empty bottles of water, and empty energy drinks. EVERY CASHIER. Nothing to hide. Acceptable.

    The problem is that I truly forgot to pay for them, so I am trying to get the case dismissed.

    I was told that because there is NO VIDEO of me actually stealing anything, never anything put in my pocket, and never on my person - that there was no proof or probable cause to arrest. The Asset Protection at wal-mart is basically saying that they THINK that I pretended to forget the items and throw them in the same trash can my PAID bottles of water went in as some type of sick and twisted weird way of stealing water while knowing that I am on Camera.

    Gut feelings, opinions, ect are not probable cause to arrest. I was told they have to actually witness me steal an item to have a probably cause to arrest OR accuse me of theft.

    Here is my question.

    IS IT.....or IS IT NOT...probable cause to arrest? An employee buys nearly 100 bottles of water over the months and consumes them at his register and pays for them on his break, lunch, and when another cashier was around in the Garden Center of Wal-Mart...then, on accident, forgets a few bottles of water and then throws them in the same trash nearly 100 PAID bottles of water went in OUT OF HABIT. The ap views the video, says they think I'm stealing. Video shows no proof of stealing, only proof that I consumed water at my register and threw the water in the trash without paying.

    Just making sure there is no probable cause to arrest. No probable cause to arrest, right?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Were you actually arrested by law enforcement or just taken out by LP?

    How many bottles are we talking about?

    Video of you drinking the water, throwing the bottle out and then a paper trail showing you never paying for it. That is proof of theft. Not all stealing requires taking merchandise and concealing it. Whether it was accidental or intentional is where things get hairy.

    Law enforcement could use that as PC for an arrest. I know the agencies I worked with would refuse to arrest for something minor like that and tell me to go convince a judge to get a warrant.

    Having worked LP for a long time, I will say this is a bit of a chicken#$% case if we're just talking a couple of bottles and no other documented activity. I might have referred you to HR for term depending on the full facts or possibly just a documented chat to be careful about paying for things you consume.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    2,745

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Quote Quoting CoryD
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    The problem is that I truly forgot to pay for them, so I am trying to get the case dismissed.
    What "case"? Were you arrested and are you being criminally prosecuted, in addition to having been fired? I'll await your response before going further.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    I was arrested by the police.

    7 bottles of water of the course of over a month.

    There was also a bag of Doritos. I forgot to pay for a a deodorant that stayed under the register for months (forgot to pay, stress, bad memory) as well as a spray cologne that also stayed under the register.

    $34.85 total.

    I didn't steal or did it on purpose though. I can pay the fines, get a new job, and do the community service...but I cannot admit to a crime that I did not commit. They gave me a way out of court, but I cannot accept it. I just can't bring myself to admit that I stole something when I did not steal. I made a mistake on accident, but I am not a thief! I don't steal!

    If I only consumed 10 bottles of water and didn't pay for 7 then I could see how they could think that. However, the fact that I consumed around 100 bottles of water and forgot to pay for 7 of them (3-6 bottles per day), to me, proves no probable cause.

    "Video of drinking the water, throwing them in the trash, that is proof of theft" - to me, it should be proof that I forgot to pay for the water.

    The public attorney waived the court date of the 30th and said he would see what he can do...asked me to setup another meeting after the 30th.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    4,301

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Forgetting to pay and stealing are pretty much the same thing. Doing it 7 times plus the stolen deodorant and cologne you need a lawyer.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    Forgetting to pay and stealing are pretty much the same thing. Doing it 7 times plus the stolen deodorant and cologne you need a lawyer.
    In the eyes of the wolves, I'm sure it is.

    They don't care anything about innocence or if I am guilty or not. They just want to eat.

    I did truly forget though. Big difference. Difference being that person A, over there, knows they are stealing. They make a conscious decision to steal. Pretending to forget.

    Person B, over here, knows they did not steal or make a conscious decision.

    Either way, I know in my heart that I am innocent. 100% innocent. I have no kids and live at home. I can buy $34 of product. I don't need to steal or pretend to forget some items as some type of disturbing way of getting away with theft. I seen people arrested for theft every day there. One of my jobs was to guard the door when there was no door greeter to check receipts. I know they watch everything.

    Looks like foul play and wrong doing on the Asset Protection to me.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    I'm kinda shocked a prosecutor is running with it but you play the hand you are dealt. I'm guessing they offered you diversion or something similar?

    So you forgot to pay for these items while still paying for others? That would be evidence in your favor that it was a mistake.

    I do wonder what turned them on to you. Maybe a random sweep noted the cologne and deodorant.

    Based on what you describe and if there is no other documented activity, I will say I would have just stat'd you by term and left it at that.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    I also considered the connection between being "FIRED" and "WATER" maybe they though it would be a funny joke when they noticed I was flushing my system with water, forgot to pay for the water, and thought it would be funny to "fire" me over "water"...idk though doesnt make sense.

    Another angle I played out was maybe they thought I planned the whole thing out as some type of way of "going out with a bang" but then that doesnt make sense either.

    They have got to think that I was trying to get away with stealing by pretending to forget the items and throw them in the trash. It's the only thing that makes sense.

    That, or wrong doing on the APs part.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    Quote Quoting CoryD
    View Post
    They have got to think that I was trying to get away with stealing by pretending to forget the items and throw them in the trash. It's the only thing that makes sense.
    Eating/drinking something and throwing the remains in the trash is a pretty common form of theft.

    Quote Quoting CoryD
    View Post
    That, or wrong doing on the APs part.
    I don't have all the facts but based on what you have described, LP did nothing wrong here. They might have been a bit overzealous in referring this for prosecution but that's just my opinion.

    All you can do is fight it in court and hope for the best.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Confirming That There Was No Probable Cause to Arrest

    I consumed Snickers, Carmellos, Rice crispy treats, M&M's, water, and energy drinks at my register, before paying, every day for months and paid on my break, lunch, or when another cashier was around. I did it in front of everyone. I would grab a water and drink it right in front of everyone in the garden center, on camera, and then pay for it whenever I had the chance (or on break). Every cashier working in GC rang up my empty water bottles, empty candy bar wrappers, empty chip bags.

    I was going through withdraws from cigarettes and coffee. That is the only reason I every started buying items in garden. Extreme sugar cravings and flushing my system with water. Going from 2 Monster drinks a day and a pack of cigarettes a day down to 1 energy drink, half pack, 10 cigs, 5 cigs, back to half pack, on and on.

    Until then, in those months, I worked there for 2 years and never really purchased anything from the register I worked at. I had extreme brain fog, sweats, trouble remembering what I was doing one minute to the next.

    Can't believe this. Most insulting and disrespectful thing that has ever happened to me. I learned from it though.

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