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  1. #11
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    Using the example the OP gave...


    This happened to me the other day. I arrived at 7 and spent the next 10-15 minutes getting the truck ready. My co worker had not arrived so I asked the boss if he had heard anything. We called him and he says he'd be there in 35 minutes. The boss then told me I wasn't getting paid until he arrived. He gave me the option to wait there and not get paid or go home for the day and not get paid. Are they able to decide not to pay you after showing up at your scheduled time? Is there anything I can do to stop this from happening in the future? This is a union job, but there is nothing addressing this in the contract.

    He showed up and did work at his scheduled time for 10-15 minutes. The supervisor then set conditions on leaving that would have cost the OP the vast majority of a full days pay. That basically makes the OP stay at work and not be paid for 35 minutes or risk 8 hours of pay.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    Agreed.



    You have to back that up with some case law or statute. I disagree with you. If OP's work day starts at a specific time, he get paid if he is there.



    Does any state have a law that requires an employee to be paid any sort of show up time? You clock in and you get paid until you clock out.
    Yes, at least one state requires show up time: California. Others may. I havenít checked but ops state doesnít. If an employee is directed to report at a given time and they do, the law requires them to be paid a portion of their scheduled day unless an exception in the law applies.


    I donít have to back up anything with case law nor statute. If for no other reason than logic and the lack of a law requiring show up pay, as long as an employer does not allow an employee to perform work the employer owes the employee nothing. Any employer can intercept an employee prior to them starting the day and tell them; sorry but there isnít any work today. Unless they live in a state that requires show up pay, the employee is owed nothing.

    note that I said if the employer does not allow the the employee to work (or has given the employee notice they are not to perform work until all crew members are present) and was also given advance notice no work time would accrue until such time all members of some work crew are present. It is the employees option to go home or wait until Joe Slow gets to work and start their work day.

  3. #13
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    Jun 2006
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    https://www.datamaticsinc.com/state-...time-pay-laws/

    Oregon does have a reporting pay rule, but only for minors under the age of 18.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    6,662

    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    Quote Quoting jk
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    Yes, at least one state requires show up time: California. Others may. I havenít checked but ops state doesnít. If an employee is directed to report at a given time and they do, the law requires them to be paid a portion of their scheduled day unless an exception in the law applies.


    I donít have to back up anything with case law nor statute. If for no other reason than logic and the lack of a law requiring show up pay, as long as an employer does not allow an employee to perform work the employer owes the employee nothing. Any employer can intercept an employee prior to them starting the day and tell them; sorry but there isnít any work today. Unless they live in a state that requires show up pay, the employee is owed nothing.

    note that I said if the employer does not allow the the employee to work (or has given the employee notice they are not to perform work until all crew members are present) and was also given advance notice no work time would accrue until such time all members of some work crew are present. It is the employees option to go home or wait until Joe Slow gets to work and start their work day.
    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    https://www.datamaticsinc.com/state-...time-pay-laws/

    Oregon does have a reporting pay rule, but only for minors under the age of 18.
    Oregon does have waiting time rules.

    Rule 839-020-0041
    Waiting Time

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    (1)
    On duty (engaged to wait): Where waiting is an integral part of the job, i.e., when the time spent waiting belongs to and is controlled by the employer and the employee is unable to use the time effectively for the employees own purposes, that employee will be considered as engaged to wait. All time spent in activity where an employee is engaged to wait will be considered as part of hours worked.

    (2)
    Off duty (waiting to be engaged): Periods during which an employee is completely relieved from duty and which are long enough to enable the employee to use the time effectively for the employees own purposes are not hours worked. The employee is not completely relieved from duty and cannot use the time effectively for the employees own purposes unless the employee is told in advance that the employee may leave the job and that the employee will not have to commence work until a specified hour has arrived. Whether the time is long enough to enable the employee to use the time effectively for the employees own purposes depends upon all of the facts and circumstances of the case.

    (3)
    On-call time: An employee who is required to remain on-call on the employers premises or so close thereto that the employee cannot use the time effectively for the employees own purposes is working while "on-call. An employee who is not required to remain on the employers premises but is merely required to leave word at the employees home or with company officials where the employee may be reached is not working while on-call.
    https://oregon.public.law/rules/oar_839-020-0041

    You can draw your own conclusions. But waiting for your work partner surely falls under (1) above IMO since OP is getting the truck ready to go out.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    7,778

    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    You can draw your own conclusions. But waiting for your work partner surely falls under (1) above IMO since OP is getting the truck ready to go out.
    If you have to wait for your work partner to show up before you start getting paid, then you don't start prepping the truck until the work partner shows up.

    No one here that I see has said OP is not entitled to pay for the instance where he was not informed of this policy and had already done some work. He is absolutely entitled to that pay. In the future, OP can wait until his partner shows up to start prepping.

    If you know the boss is making an arbitrary call on whether to pay that time or not, then the workers would need to stand their ground that they aren't going to work until they know they are being paid for it.

    I had a job where I was required to be on site 15 minutes before the beginning of my shift for hand-off so I clocked in 15 minutes early every day. Boss told me I'm not entitled to be paid for that time so I stopped getting there early or would just wait until my start time to actually start.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    I would take this to the union and let them sort this out. this is why you pay dues.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    Oregon does have waiting time rules.



    https://oregon.public.law/rules/oar_839-020-0041

    You can draw your own conclusions. But waiting for your work partner surely falls under (1) above IMO since OP is getting the truck ready to go out.
    dod you miss the conversation?

    if the employee is not obligated to wait on site and can leave at his discretion he is waiting to be engaged. That means no pay is owed.

    in the case where employee actually performed work I, along with everybody else, has agreed pay is due. In future situations of employer said no paid time until ďthe crewĒ is present, employee is not authorized to perform work. Employee can decide if he wants to wait until his work partner shows up and they can then both start being paid or employee can leave, without pay of course.

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
    View Post
    I would take this to the union and let them sort this out. this is why you pay dues.
    That would appear to be the only possible remedy to the issue. I see nothing in law obligating pay if the employee is not engaged to wait and performs no work.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    3,551

    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post

    That would appear to be the only possible remedy to the issue. I see nothing in law obligating pay if the employee is not engaged to wait and performs no work.
    The problem is the OP is punished if he leaves until the other employee shows up.

  9. #19
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    Nov 2015
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    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    The problem is the OP is punished if he leaves until the other employee shows up.
    Which is why it should be taken to the union as a first step of sorting this out.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Company Not Paying Until Other Employees Arrive

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    dod you miss the conversation? .
    Not at all. It is you that miss what the laws of Oregon say.

    (1) On duty (engaged to wait): Where waiting is an integral part of the job, i.e., when the time spent waiting belongs to and is controlled by the employer and the employee is unable to use the time effectively for the employees own purposes, that employee will be considered as engaged to wait. All time spent in activity where an employee is engaged to wait will be considered as part of hours worked.
    So you are saying that OP has to wait after clocking in for his partner to arrive and that the time he waits (10, 15, 30 minutes or perhaps an hour) is time that OP can use for his own purposes? What purposes do you think that may be? Maybe trimming his toe nails?

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    if the employee is not obligated to wait on site and can leave at his discretion he is waiting to be engaged. That means no pay is owed..
    By OP's post, he is not off duty or on-call time. He is doing work to get ready to work.

    Not exactly on point but the Oregon Supreme Court has parsed the Rule 839-020-0041 I quoted.

    If further confirmation were needed, the context of OAR 839-020-0050(1)(b) supplies it. Related regulations establish that employees are not required to be "working" (in the colloquial sense) the entire time that they are considered to be "working" for purposes of wage and hour laws. For example, OAR 839-020-0041, dealing with "waiting time," provides that employees who are required to "wait" as part of their jobs are considered to be working, so long as "the time spent waiting belongs to and is controlled by the employer and the employee is unable to use the time effectively for the employee's own purposes." OAR 839-020-0041(1). Similarly, an employee who is required to remain on-call on the employer's premises or so close thereto that the employee cannot use the time effectively for the employee's own purposes is "working" while on-call. OAR 839-020-0041(3). And, under OAR 839-020-0042(1), employees who are required to be on duty for less than 24 hours are considered to be working even though they are permitted to sleep or engage in other activities when not busy. By the same token, the fact that a 10-minute rest break is too short to enable an employee to use the time effectively for his or her own purposes suggests that the employee is "working" for purposes of the wage and hour laws.[7]
    https://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...en&as_sdt=4,38

    And there is this in the Federal Courts:

    Plaintiffs contend that subsection (2) of OAR 839-020-0041, the "waiting time rule" controls under the facts of this case, and they were not "off duty" within the meaning of that rule at any time during their duty shifts. The rule provides,

    Periods during which an employee is completely relieved from duty and which are long enough to enable the employee to use the time effectively for the employee's own purposes are not hours worked. The employee is not completely relieved from duty and cannot use the time effectively for the employee's own purposes unless the employee is told in advance that the employee may leave the job and that the employee will not have to commence work until a specified hour has arrived. Whether the time is long enough to enable the employee to use the time effectively for the employee's own purposes depends upon all of the facts and circumstances of the case.
    https://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...en&as_sdt=3,31

    Think about what you are saying. Your company wants you to report at 7:00 AM but you won't get paid until your partner reports. You then have two employers determining what you get paid. Employer 1 is the company you work for and employer 2 is your partner. No court would say that is legal.

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