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  1. #1

    Default No 3rd Party Contact Clarification

    My question involves restraining orders in the State of: Illinois
    I am seeking clarification regarding the 3rd party contact rule. Does this include discussing the protected party at all with someone else or even saying her name. To be more specific responding to another person's text message where they express how they feel about the protected party and the respondent agreed with them. No message was given in order for her to hear it. It was a conversation about her. Is that a violation under 3rd party rule?
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: No 3rd Party Contact Clarification

    The third party contact rule is you can’t have others “pass along” messages of any sort. While not a strict violation, I would suggest that if you know a person you spoke to is passing along information, even if it isn’t at your suggestion or request, that you do not discuss the protected person or any incident involving the protected party. It doesn’t take much to turn some statements into threats or intimidation.


    here is the verbiage from one particular statute regarding orders of protection.

    Stay away" means to refrain from both physical presence and nonphysical contact with the petitioner directly, indirectly, or through third parties who may or may not know of the order. "Nonphysical contact" includes, but is not limited to, telephone calls, mail, e-mail, fax, and written notes.
    (Source: P.A. 96-311, eff. 1-1-10.)


  3. #3
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    Default Re: No 3rd Party Contact Clarification

    Quote Quoting EasilyDistracted03
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    My question involves restraining orders in the State of: Illinois
    I am seeking clarification regarding the 3rd party contact rule. Does this include discussing the protected party at all with someone else or even saying her name. To be more specific responding to another person's text message where they express how they feel about the protected party and the respondent agreed with them. No message was given in order for her to hear it. It was a conversation about her. Is that a violation under 3rd party rule?
    Thanks
    Your problem isn't talking to other people about her. Your problem kicks in when and if that information gets back to her, and in what manner it gets back to her.

    If you trust that someone you talk to about her won't discuss it with anyone else, then it might be safe.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: No 3rd Party Contact Clarification

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Your problem isn't talking to other people about her. Your problem kicks in when and if that information gets back to her, and in what manner it gets back to her.

    If you trust that someone you talk to about her won't discuss it with anyone else, then it might be safe.
    The info getting back to her is irrelevant. A restrained party is not prohibited to speak of the restraining party. It’s that they cannot contact them in any way including through a third party.

    simply put; the restrained party cannot have contact in any form with the restraining Party. That means a third party cannot pass along a message or even something such as delivering flowers to the restraining party.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: No 3rd Party Contact Clarification

    Quote Quoting jk
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    The info getting back to her is irrelevant. A restrained party is not prohibited to speak of the restraining party. It’s that they cannot contact them in any way including through a third party.

    simply put; the restrained party cannot have contact in any form with the restraining Party. That means a third party cannot pass along a message or even something such as delivering flowers to the restraining party.
    Let me give you an example of how you could be wrong.

    Joe contacts Bob and says, "I am so sorry that Jane has been such a #itch to you getting that restraining order". Bob joins into the conversation and they say nasty things about Jane.

    Joe then turns around and tells his girlfriend about the conversation. The girlfriend is a dramallama and turns around and posts on facebook, addressing Jane directly and tells her that she is a horrible #itch because Bob says so.

    Whether Bob intended for Joe's girlfriend to be his third party contact with Jane, the perception is going to be that he intended that and that is going to cause him some grief. That is why it matters who he vents to about his situation with Jane and the protection order.

    Another example could be another family member of Bob's trying to convince Jane, all on his/her own to drop the protection order against Bob. While the family member was acting on their own, its still going to be perceived to be third party contact because of the nature of the contact.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: No 3rd Party Contact Clarification

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Let me give you an example of how you could be wrong.

    Joe contacts Bob and says, "I am so sorry that Jane has been such a #itch to you getting that restraining order". Bob joins into the conversation and they say nasty things about Jane.

    Joe then turns around and tells his girlfriend about the conversation. The girlfriend is a dramallama and turns around and posts on facebook, addressing Jane directly and tells her that she is a horrible #itch because Bob says so.

    Whether Bob intended for Joe's girlfriend to be his third party contact with Jane, the perception is going to be that he intended that and that is going to cause him some grief. That is why it matters who he vents to about his situation with Jane and the protection order.

    Another example could be another family member of Bob's trying to convince Jane, all on his/her own to drop the protection order against Bob. While the family member was acting on their own, its still going to be perceived to be third party contact because of the nature of the contact.
    i disagree. Bob has to intend for the statement to be delivered to Jane. That can include situations where Bob would make a statement to a particular person with presumption it will be relayed to Jane. Bob is free to comment on janes personality all he wishes without it violating the order. His 1st amendment rights are not inhibited. It is only communicating with Jane that is prohibited.

    now if bob made the statement knowing it would play out as you describe, it might be interpreted he did intend to communicate with Jane and as such a violation. Of course proving Bob knew it would play out as you describe could be problematic.




    your second example also doesn’t violate the order because Bob made no attempt to contact Jane nor have any statement relayed to her.

    but this sort of situation is similar to my statement of being careful who you say what to as it can be (improperly) interpreted as an attempt to communicate with Jane if bob makes a statement he knows will be relayed to Jane, even if he has no desire it be relayed. It isn’t a violation in itself but depending on who is interpreting it and precisely what is said as well as all facts surrounding the matter,, it could be interpreted to be an attempt to communicate with Jane.

    He has to intend the communication be delivered to Jane to violate the order. A court may admonish Bob to caution his family against contacting Jane. Appearances can lead one to believe Bob has violated the order even if he hasn’t. If the court accepts Bobs statement he is not behind the contact, Bob won’t be held liable for his family’s actions. He has no ability nor right to control another’s actions. if Jane doesn’t want contact with bobs family, she needs to tell them to leave her alone and if they refuse to, she can seek an RO against them.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: No 3rd Party Contact Clarification

    Quote Quoting jk
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    i disagree. Bob has to intend for the statement to be delivered to Jane. That can include situations where Bob would make a statement to a particular person with presumption it will be relayed to Jane. Bob is free to comment on janes personality all he wishes without it violating the order. His 1st amendment rights are not inhibited. It is only communicating with Jane that is prohibited.

    now if bob made the statement knowing it would play out as you describe, it might be interpreted he did intend to communicate with Jane and as such a violation. Of course proving Bob knew it would play out as you describe could be problematic.




    your second example also doesn’t violate the order because Bob made no attempt to contact Jane nor have any statement relayed to her.

    but this sort of situation is similar to my statement of being careful who you say what to as it can be (improperly) interpreted as an attempt to communicate with Jane if bob makes a statement he knows will be relayed to Jane, even if he has no desire it be relayed. It isn’t a violation in itself but depending on who is interpreting it and precisely what is said as well as all facts surrounding the matter,, it could be interpreted to be an attempt to communicate with Jane.

    He has to intend the communication be delivered to Jane to violate the order. A court may admonish Bob to caution his family against contacting Jane. Appearances can lead one to believe Bob has violated the order even if he hasn’t. If the court accepts Bobs statement he is not behind the contact, Bob won’t be held liable for his family’s actions. He has no ability nor right to control another’s actions. if Jane doesn’t want contact with bobs family, she needs to tell them to leave her alone and if they refuse to, she can seek an RO against them.
    Many years ago, when my daughter was a minor, I had to get a restraining order against a boy at her school. While the temporary order was pending until we got a full hearing, some friends of the boy were harassing my daughter.

    When that harassment came up during the hearing the judge ripped the boy a new one for his friends' behavior. The boy's attorney made the argument that the boy had no control over his friends' behavior. The judge responded with "he better get some control because if his friends say one more word to this girl, I WILL violate him".

    So, perception DOES matter a great deal. If it can be perceived that someone wanted or encouraged the communication, it can be percieved as third party communication and can be a problem for the person. Since the restrained person does not want that to happen, the restrained person needs to be careful.

  8. #8

    Default Re: No 3rd Party Contact Clarification

    Thank you so much for the clarification. I understand this so much better now. Basically the only way to play it safe is to remove the protected party's name from your vocabulary. I very much appreciate you taking time to respond!

  9. #9

    Default Re: No 3rd Party Contact Clarification

    I just want to sincerely thank all of you for your input on this. It gave me valuable info! I really believe the violations for a Facebook friends request is ridiculous and we Hope to get that dismissed. This has been a nightmare. I've been trying to help this young man who also has a cognitive disability and I know zero about the legal system and frankly Illinois doesnt have a stellar record for fathers rights. He's been taken advantage, tricked, used and doesn't have any money or assets to get a lawyer. So this is such a wonderful resource to ask questions and I appreciate all the time you each took to answer!

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