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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    11

    Default Subcontracting

    My question involves independent contractors in the state of: Massachusetts

    I subcontract out routine office cleaning services to small companies.

    All the companies I sub out to are owner operators and usually have between 2-3 employees other than the owner.

    They provide all the equipment, cleaning supplies, etc. They donít wear any of our companies logos or use any of our materials. They all have their own clients besides the work I give them and they all carry their own insurances/licenses.

    All the subs bill us and charge us on their own payment terms.

    We donít control when they do the cleaning, but after we give them the keys, we do specify the time frame they can go in to the building... for instance we tell them you can go in and get it done any time after they close to before they open.

    We also tell them the days the client is requesting.


    Iím trying my hardest to make sure Iím not miss-classifying. Does everything look in order here? Anything I should do, to make sure Iím nowhere near any grey lines?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    15,673

    Default Re: Subcontracting

    Quote Quoting Csiscool
    View Post
    My question involves independent contractors in the state of: Massachusetts

    I subcontract out routine office cleaning services to small companies.

    All the companies I sub out to are owner operators and usually have between 2-3 employees other than the owner.

    They provide all the equipment, cleaning supplies, etc. They don’t wear any of our companies logos or use any of our materials. They all have their own clients besides the work I give them and they all carry their own insurances/licenses.

    All the subs bill us and charge us on their own payment terms.

    We don’t control when they do the cleaning, but after we give them the keys, we do specify the time frame they can go in to the building... for instance we tell them you can go in and get it done any time after they close to before they open.

    We also tell them the days the client is requesting.


    I’m trying my hardest to make sure I’m not miss-classifying. Does everything look in order here? Anything I should do, to make sure I’m nowhere near any grey lines?
    The fact that you are subcontracting to companies with employees of their own is pretty much enough to indicate that you are no where near any grey lines. The fact that they have other customers besides you is another significant factor as well.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
    Posts
    1,418

    Default Re: Subcontracting

    Quote Quoting Csiscool
    View Post
    My question involves independent contractors in the state of: Massachusetts

    I subcontract out routine office cleaning services to small companies.

    All the companies I sub out to are owner operators and usually have between 2-3 employees other than the owner.

    They provide all the equipment, cleaning supplies, etc. They don’t wear any of our companies logos or use any of our materials. They all have their own clients besides the work I give them and they all carry their own insurances/licenses.

    All the subs bill us and charge us on their own payment terms.

    We don’t control when they do the cleaning, but after we give them the keys, we do specify the time frame they can go in to the building... for instance we tell them you can go in and get it done any time after they close to before they open.

    We also tell them the days the client is requesting.


    I’m trying my hardest to make sure I’m not miss-classifying. Does everything look in order here? Anything I should do, to make sure I’m nowhere near any grey lines?
    What I find most interesting is that there was a post, not that long ago that was almost identical to this one.

    Identical.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    17,221

    Default Re: Subcontracting

    Quote Quoting Csiscool
    View Post


    I’m trying my hardest to make sure I’m not miss-classifying. Does everything look in order here? Anything I should do, to make sure I’m nowhere near any grey lines?
    You've got it exactly right. Stop worrying.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6,465

    Default Re: Subcontracting

    Quote Quoting Csiscool
    View Post
    My question involves independent contractors in the state of: Massachusetts

    I subcontract out routine office cleaning services to small companies.

    All the companies I sub out to are owner operators and usually have between 2-3 employees other than the owner.

    They provide all the equipment, cleaning supplies, etc. They donít wear any of our companies logos or use any of our materials. They all have their own clients besides the work I give them and they all carry their own insurances/licenses.

    All the subs bill us and charge us on their own payment terms.

    We donít control when they do the cleaning, but after we give them the keys, we do specify the time frame they can go in to the building... for instance we tell them you can go in and get it done any time after they close to before they open.

    We also tell them the days the client is requesting.


    Iím trying my hardest to make sure Iím not miss-classifying. Does everything look in order here? Anything I should do, to make sure Iím nowhere near any grey lines?
    I agree that it sounds like you have it correct. Do you have signed IC contracts signed by the owners of these companies and do you send out a 1099 forms to them?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    15,673

    Default Re: Subcontracting

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    I agree that it sounds like you have it correct. Do you have signed IC contracts signed by the owners of these companies and do you send out a 1099 forms to them?
    An independent contractor contract is not appropriate for a company. That is for an individual. A company cannot be an independent contractor. Its a company. A company cannot be an employee either of course.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6,465

    Default Re: Subcontracting

    You are incorrect. OP operates his company and hires individually owned companies (that may be sole proprietorships, partnerships, or other corporations that he/she contracts with to do the work. Those companies are considered IC to his company. An IC is not just an individual.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    15,673

    Default Re: Subcontracting

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    You are incorrect. OP operates his company and hires individually owned companies (that may be sole proprietorships, partnerships, or other corporations that he/she contracts with to do the work. Those companies are considered IC to his company. An IC is not just an individual.
    I am sorry Bud but you really are wrong on that. I agree that they would be subcontractors, but they are not independent contractors. The designation "independent contractor" is a designation for an individual, hence the word "independent".

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6,465

    Default Re: Subcontracting

    You can disagree all you want but you are still incorrect.

    An independent contractor is a person or business who performs services for another person under an express or implied agreement and who is not subject to the other's control, or right to control, the manner and means of performing the services.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,305

    Default Re: Subcontracting

    You are such a wad bud.

    There are many places that define an IC as a person or entity.

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