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  1. #1
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    Default Theft by False Pretenses

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Nevada


    I gave a guy $3,000 for a Toyota Prius that he said he had and he doesn't seem to have it now. He's been stringing me along for over a month now. I was relying heavily on this and have told him so many times. Is the correct action on my part to tell the guy to deliver the car and if he doesn't should I go to the police station and file a felony grand theft under false pretense? I have myself and someone else who has been present for all of this as the 2 required witnesses and if there are any doubts to our testimony I have numerous emails and texts to corroborate the story. I can also subpoena camera footage from my bank showing me withdrawing $3,000 and walking directly outside and handing him the money.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Theft by False Pretenses

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Nevada


    I gave a guy $3,000 for a Toyota Prius that he said he had and he doesn't seem to have it now. He's been stringing me along for over a month now. I was relying heavily on this and have told him so many times. Is the correct action on my part to tell the guy to deliver the car and if he doesn't should I go to the police station and file a felony grand theft under false pretense? I have myself and someone else who has been present for all of this as the 2 required witnesses and if there are any doubts to our testimony I have numerous emails and texts to corroborate the story. I can also subpoena camera footage from my bank showing me withdrawing $3,000 and walking directly outside and handing him the money.
    How old are you?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Theft by False Pretenses

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    I gave a guy $3,000 for a Toyota Prius that he said he had and he doesn't seem to have it now.
    You handed over the money without the car and the title right there in front of you.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxGgnI6kCrs

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    Is the correct action on my part to tell the guy to deliver the car and if he doesn't should I go to the police station and file a felony grand theft under false pretense?
    No. The correct action is go to the police station now and file the report and hope the police don't just tell you it's a civil matter.

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    I have myself and someone else who has been present for all of this as the 2 required witnesses and if there are any doubts to our testimony I have numerous emails and texts to corroborate the story. I can also subpoena camera footage from my bank showing me withdrawing $3,000 and walking directly outside and handing him the money.
    Good for you.

    After you make the police report sue him for breach of contract. You'll probably win and end up with a piece of paper that's suitable for wrapping fish or lining the hamster cage.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Theft by False Pretenses

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    You handed over the money without the car and the title right there in front of you.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxGgnI6kCrs



    No. The correct action is go to the police station now and file the report and hope the police don't just tell you it's a civil matter.



    Good for you.

    After you make the police report sue him for breach of contract. You'll probably win and end up with a piece of paper that's suitable for wrapping fish or lining the hamster cage.
    There's a very specific theft by fraud penal code NRS 205.380 that was made just for such an occurrence. It is petty theft if under $950 or felony grand theft if over $950. To prove does not require anything in writing, just 2 witnesses. I wanted to find out more about it but I think this may be the wrong forum. For some reason I thought posters answering questions here were at least in law school.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Theft by False Pretenses

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    I gave a guy $3,000 for a Toyota Prius that he said he had and he doesn't seem to have it now.
    Hold on a second...

    When you gave this guy $3,000, did you receive possession of the car? Your post suggests you did not. Did you receive the certificate of title signed by the "guy"? The implication seems to be that you didn't. If that's the case, why on Earth would you give someone $3,000 (cash?) for absolutely nothing in return? Did you have a signed, written agreement for the sale/purchase of the car?


    Quote Quoting pat247
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    should I go to the police station and file a felony grand theft under false pretense?
    Sure, but it's entirely possible that the police will tell you that it's a civil matter and that your recourse is to sue. If I'm right that you gave this guy $3,000 without getting possession of the car or a signed certificate of title, then you acted completely unreasonably, which would make a criminal prosecution very difficult.


    Quote Quoting pat247
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    the 2 required witnesses
    Huh?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Theft by False Pretenses

    For some reason I thought that posters answering questions on this forum were at least in law school. I didn't think I'd be the one teaching. Well, Nevada has a penal code NRS 205.380 "theft by false pretenses" that is petty theft if under $950 or felony grand theft if over $950. It doesn't require to have anything in writing, or signed. It requires 2 witnesses just like most crimes. If you pay someone for something (that doesn't have to be right there in front of you) and they don't deliver, they can be criminally charged. I wanted to find out more about it but I think this may be the wrong forum.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Theft by False Pretenses

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    For some reason I thought that posters answering questions on this forum were at least in law school.
    PG1067 is an attorney. If not in law school now, presumable once was.

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    Nevada has a penal code NRS 205.380 "theft by false pretenses" that is petty theft if under $950 or felony grand theft if over $950. It doesn't require to have anything in writing, or signed.
    True. Nevada does have such a statute. Here's the pertinent part:

    NV Rev Stat 205.380
    1. A person who knowingly and designedly by any false pretense obtains from any other person any chose in action, money, goods, wares, chattels, effects or other valuable thing, including rent or the labor of another person not his or her employee, with the intent to cheat or defraud the other person, is a cheat, and, unless otherwise prescribed by law, shall be punished:
    Note the emphasized words. What "evidence" do you have of his "intent"?

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    It requires 2 witnesses just like most crimes.
    Nothing in that statute requires 2 witnesses. Nor do I know of any other criminal statute that enumerates the number of witnesses required for prosecution and/or conviction.

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    they can be criminally charged.
    They can be but will they be? Two different things entirely.

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    I wanted to find out more about it
    You'll find out more about it when you report it to the police.

    Quote Quoting pat247
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    I think this may be the wrong forum.
    It is, if you want somebody to say: Yes, he's going to jail for "theft by false pretenses."

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Theft by False Pretenses

    Do you have the person's,real name and address ? Did you see anything with proof of who he is and where he lives ? If all you have to go on is,what he told you. You might have no reliable information.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Theft by False Pretenses

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    PG1067 is an attorney. If not in law school now, presumable once was.
    Based on his responses, he demonstrated a lack of understanding of the statute, if not being totally unaware of its existence, until I realized I had been looking at the Ca version of this law. So, my bad.

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    Note the emphasized words. What "evidence" do you have of his "intent"?
    That's one of the reasons I posted here is to maybe get some feedback as to what is considered evidence of intent. If he didn't "intend" to steal my money then he would either produce the car or return my money, wouldn't he? Wouldn't the intent become inherent by virtue of the outcome? There was no car. He kept the money.

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    Nothing in that statute requires 2 witnesses. Nor do I know of any other criminal statute that enumerates the number of witnesses required for prosecution and/or conviction.
    Note the words in bold from the California version of the statute which I couldn't find in the Nevada version. I guess I'm screwed.

    the defendant cannot be convicted if the false pretense was expressed in language unaccompanied by a false token or writing, unless the pretense, or some note or memorandum thereof is in writing, subscribed by or in the handwriting of the defendant, or unless the pretense is proven by the testimony of two witnesses, or that of one witness and corroborating circumstances.


    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    They can be but will they be? Two different things entirely.
    That's what I was trying to discuss...

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    You'll find out more about it when you report it to the police.
    I wanted to find out more about it before I reported it to the police possibly wasting my time and gas.

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    It is, if you want somebody to say: Yes, he's going to jail for "theft by false pretenses."
    Not at all. I was just seeking legal advice.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Theft by False Pretenses

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    Nothing in that statute requires 2 witnesses. Nor do I know of any other criminal statute that enumerates the number of witnesses required for prosecution and/or conviction.
    There's always Art. 3 Sec. 3 of the Constitution.

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