Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 16 of 16
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    320

    Default Re: Ticket for VC 21461 for Something More of VC 21656

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    Can you post without the ad hominem attacks?
    It's not an ad hominem attack... simply a statement of fact. No one knows everything, and it was not my intent to demean you. It is your own posting that is doing it. AN dthe sign was "slow vehicles must use turnout", according to O/P.

    Quote Quoting sinombre
    View Post
    Seems like my post got deleted, so reposting. Either bug with forum or moderator deleted it. In response to the latest comments.

    I was cited VC 21461 but citation text/notes state "failure to obey turnout", which sounds like VC 21656 to me. If not, what's the best matching VC that the citation refers to? Googling up the signs referenced here, where I was driving I had seen signs which I believe to be R4-13.

    along the stretch fo Hwy 20 I was driving, only saw a short right lane for once or twice. The whole time it was mainly (small/tiny) turnouts, which also were unpaved, and dipped below the paved road a bit that required careful turning into if you didn't want to go rough brake/stop into them while traveling at decent normal (fast) speed.

    The citation noted the area as being SR 20 MPM 23.
    He can cite you with VC 21461 for disobeying any sign. Signs are defined in CAMUTCD, and the definition of R4-13 explicitly refers to CVC 21656, which means you're effectively being charged with CVC 21656. You just need to point this put to the judge, and you've won your case, assuming two things: 1) The officer will not testify there were 5 cars behind you, and 2) You get a fair judge.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,231

    Default Re: Ticket for VC 21461 for Something More of VC 21656

    Quote Quoting zeljo
    View Post
    It's not an ad hominem attack... simply a statement of fact. No one knows everything, and it was not my intent to demean you. It is your own posting that is doing it. AN dthe sign was "slow vehicles must use turnout", according to O/P.



    He can cite you with VC 21461 for disobeying any sign. Signs are defined in CAMUTCD, and the definition of R4-13 explicitly refers to CVC 21656, which means you're effectively being charged with CVC 21656. You just need to point this put to the judge, and you've won your case, assuming two things: 1) The officer will not testify there were 5 cars behind you, and 2) You get a fair judge.
    Unless the officer states that he was actually charged with the correct offense and he failed to move into the right lane.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,203

    Default Re: Ticket for VC 21461 for Something More of VC 21656

    OK, I apologize for misinterpretting what you were saying. They could charge you with either section, but either way the turn out sign only applies to the five car following rule, you can certainly argue that. Are we talkign about MM23 in Mendocino county? Which direction were you going?

    The other thing to note is whether there was a R4-12 sign at the beginning of the stretch with turnouts. I'm not seeing it going eastbound out of Ft Bragg. The MUTCD says SHALL there (that's imperative).

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Ticket for VC 21461 for Something More of VC 21656

    I was going westbound (leaving from Ft Bragg), yes Mendocino county was what appeared to be written on citation.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,203

    Default Re: Ticket for VC 21461 for Something More of VC 21656

    There appears according to MUTCD that there should be a sign warning you about pulling over with 5 people behind you. I don't see it on Google StreetView but that doesn't mean it's not there. SOME of the turnouts are marked (I think the one you are accused of missing is), but I think you do have a compelling argument that if there weren't five cars behind you the SLOWER CARS USE TURNOUTS doesn't have validity. Absent the R12 sign (you might give a quick pass from Ft Bragg up to the first turn out again). For some reason I had you way at the other end of HWY 20.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Ticket for VC 21461 for Something More of VC 21656

    You will need to articulate your argument properly if you want to prevail. If it was me, I would be sure to make the following points:

    1. You were driving on 20 and exactly 3 cars were behind you.
    2. There were no R4-12 signs posted (be sure to describe the sign) (I've never seen those on 20... were they there?)
    3. You were cited for disobeying a R4-14 under 21461
    4. Quote the applicable section of 2B in the MUTCD and explain that R4-14s are required to be used in conjunction with R4-12s. I believe the CAMUTCD explains the reasoning for this. You can reiterate it.
    5. As such the sign was not regulatory in nature, per CAMUTCD, and you were not in violation of 21461
    6. Furthermore, You were not cited as violating 21656, the more appropriate code.
    7. Quote 21656
    8. State that the legislature's intent was made clear with this statute, that use of turnouts are mandatory when there are 5 or more cars behind you.
    9. Argue that the officer should not circumvent this by citing 21461.

    Given the code he cited you under and the MUTCD evidence, I believe this argument to be compelling and that TBWD is sufficient.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Similar Threads

  1. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Turning Right on Red, VC 21461(A) Ticket
    By Jta132 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-19-2019, 05:30 PM
  2. Traffic Lane Violations: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(A)
    By ThisIsAUserName in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 06-20-2018, 06:12 PM
  3. Traffic Lane Violations: Ticket for Re-Entering a Freeway from an Exit Lane, VC 21461(a)
    By joe_ca in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-26-2018, 11:13 AM
  4. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: U-Turn Ticket, VC 21461(A)
    By GatorSF in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-09-2011, 03:39 PM
  5. Parking Tickets: CVC 21461(A) Ticket for No Parking
    By adam_ in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-31-2010, 01:32 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources