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  1. #21

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting zeljo
    How exactly were you offered traffic school after losing trial by written declaration?
    The clerk had already offered me traffic school on my original courtesy notice. The Commissioner who ruled on my case was moot on the point, therefore I was still allowed to attend. The clerk's certificate of mailing that came along with the Commissioners decision of the TBWD included instructions about what I needed to do and when I needed to do it by if I wanted to attend traffic school. I was given 32 days after mailing of the TBWD decision and clerks certificate of mailing to submit a check for $70.

    I wrote a pretty compelling TBWD and in the decision the Comissioner wrote a very long paragraph explaining his reasoning and orders. He could have easily denied traffic school in this section (section 6. of TR-215), he did not.

    Had the clerk been moot on the point in the certificate of mailing or attached thereto I believe a defendant should still be able to attend. They would obviously just have to speak with the clerk about it.

    Quote Quoting zeljo
    It's not that they per se deny it
    Yup, exactly.

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    There's no option after a TBD decision but to live with it or request a TDN
    nope, if traffic school has been offered by the clerk and it has not been expressly denied by the judge, I can not imagine the clerk being in a position to deny or rescind the offer. (see wozniak and the law cited above for why)

    This is why I believe every defendant should submit, at minimum, a TBWD. There's very little to lose unless the judge specifically orders you ineligible to attend traffic school in his written decision.(very unlikely)

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    326

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting B.Frank
    View Post
    This is why I believe every defendant should submit, at minimum, a TBWD. There's very little to lose unless the judge specifically orders you ineligible to attend traffic school in his written decision.(very unlikely)
    And that's where you're wrong. You had a very good experience in your case, but this is not necessarily the norm. I have myself received TBD decision notices where judges find you guilty without explaining anything. Sometimes they do, yes. However, in my experience (which is about 3 or 4 times), the TBD decision notice did not offer me a traffic school option. You were lucky. Thus, you have to be careful when advising similar approach to folks here. If they're ready to go to court to get their traffic school, it matters not: the law is on their side and they will likely get it. But if they can't go to court, for whatever reason (too far, for example) ,they may not be able to get it after TBD. This is something to be aware of when picking your strategy to fight the ticket.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    According to ticket the location is listed as 65 S/B N 56, beat 37, area 481.

  4. #24

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting zeljo
    the TBD decision notice did not offer me a traffic school option...you have to be careful when advising similar approach to folks here. If they're ready to go to court to get their traffic school, it matters not: the law is on their side and they will likely get it. But if they can't go to court, for whatever reason (too far, for example) ,they may not be able to get it after TBD. This is something to be aware of when picking your strategy to fight the ticket
    I believe you and generally agree with your reasoning here but it should be said that courts are not supposed to be doing this. It is an unethical, illegal practice. If traffic school is offered by the clerk, you contest your citation in any manner (TBWD or trial) and the judge does not rescind traffic school in his sentence or by order, the clerk can not choose to rescind the offer. They are not in a position to make that type of decision. The issue is exacerbated if the clerk has been instructed to deny all TBWD defendants. What a shame.

    Did you call the court and attempt to attend traffic school anyways or are you just assuming that it was denied because they were moot on the point?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
    Posts
    506

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting B.Frank
    View Post
    I believe you and generally agree with your reasoning here but it should be said that courts are not supposed to be doing this. It is an unethical, illegal practice. If traffic school is offered by the clerk, you contest your citation in any manner (TBWD or trial) and the judge does not rescind traffic school in his sentence or by order, the clerk can not choose to rescind the offer. They are not in a position to make that type of decision. The issue is exacerbated if the clerk has been instructed to deny all TBWD defendants. What a shame.
    What you need to understand is that if you are going to contest the citation, neither the clerk nor the judge can grant traffic school until you are convicted after a trial, whether it be a TBD or a court trial. Vehicle Code 41501(a) is very specific regarding this issue stating:

    "After a deposit of bail and bail forfeiture, a plea of guilty or no contest, or a conviction, the court may order a continuance of a proceeding against a person, who receives a notice to appear in court for a violation of a statute relating to the safe operation of a vehicle, in consideration for successful completion of a course of instruction at a licensed school for traffic violators…"
    [emphasis added]

    California Rules of Court, Rule 4.104(b)(1) gives the clerk the authority to grant traffic school under the provisions of VC 41501(a) stating:

    "a court clerk is authorized to grant a request to attend traffic violator school when a defendant with a valid driver's license requests to attend an 8-hour traffic violator school under Vehicle Code sections 41501(a)…"

    Neither the Vehicle Code nor the CRC allow either the clerk or the judge (Commissioner) the authority to grant traffic school if you enter a not guilty plea, thus, before a conviction is entered.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

  6. #26

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Good point.

    This leads me to two questions:

    1. Do you think it would be an abuse of discretion by the court and not governed by legal rules to do justice according to law for the clerk to deny, upon direction from a judge or another official of the court, the ability to attend traffic school to all TBWD defendants who receive a guilty conviction and were not otherwise ordered or denied traffic school by the judge?

    2. In Wozniak it says; " If the trial judge believes that a defendant's circumstances indicate that a defendant would benefit from attending school, such attendance should be authorized." If a defendant specifically asks for the ability to attend traffic school in his TBWD, does the Judge have a duty to rule on this or can he be moot on the point in his ruling?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
    Posts
    506

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    I would suggest you read California Rules of Court, Rule 4.104 Procedures and eligibility criteria for attending traffic violator school. Pay particular attention to subsection (c) Judicial discretion and the Advisory Committee Comments on the bottom of the page.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

  8. #28

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    I have read and understand that court rule, I am curious what your interpretation is.

    If a defendant asks for traffic school in his TBWD, do you believe the judge is required to make a ruling on this request or is it acceptable to ignore it?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
    Posts
    506

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting B.Frank
    View Post
    If a defendant asks for traffic school in his TBWD, do you believe the judge is required to make a ruling on this request or is it acceptable to ignore it?
    I would say the answer to your question is no the judge isn't required to make a ruling; your eligibility is determined by your specific case. If you are otherwise eligible for traffic school the judge doesn't need to specifically state in his decision that you can attend traffic school and the clerk can still authorize it. If, for example, you were cited for doing >25 mph over the speed limit which makes you presumptively ineligible for traffic school and the court thinks you would benefit from traffic school then this determination would need to be in the judges' decision, if not the clerk cannot authorize traffic school and you don't get it.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

  10. #30

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    can you tell my how to post to forum? thank you very much!

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