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  1. #11
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    Sep 2010
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    19,280

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Speed limit signs aren't required. That's what 22349 is all about. You aren't allowed to exceed 55 whether it is posted or not.

  2. #12

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    I've never heard of this working. You're free to request it but most courts only have two buttons on their TBD: not guilty, return bail (uncommon) and guilty, bail forfeited.
    As long as you do so respectfully, it does not hurt to ask.

    With my TBWD the Judge manually filled out a TR-215 form. All of the information, including the fine amount assessed, was clearly manually typed in or at minimum editable by the Judge. Section 3(a) of that form can be whatever the Judge feels, up to the allowable maximum. There was an additional computer system print out that I got when my bail was refunded (at trial) which was the court generated docket/minutes that had the bail posted and a space to input any fee the judge chooses followed by 3 blank lines for an explanation if necessary. I would imagine the court uses this same computer system for TBWD and trial. Is a fine that is less than the bail uncommon, yes probably, but the court certainly has the "button" or capability to do it and I do not think it's much of an inconvenience for just one case. I imagine it's uncommon mostly because nobody asks for it. The bail and penalty amounts in the uniform schedule are maximum amounts and the court has the authority to lower these at their own discretion.

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    However, that doesn't give him the outcome he's requesting.
    It addresses the "what is the best thing to do"? part.

    In summary my answer is:
    -TBWD
    -Make a respectfully but compelling argument
    -Ask for traffic school and a fine reduction if you lose
    - Do not do Trial de Novo

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    Speed limit signs aren't required. That's what 22349 is all about. You aren't allowed to exceed 55 whether it is posted or not.
    Take another look at 22349. The maximum speed limit is normally 65 mph unless posted as 70. It is 55 mph in specific circumstances. The highway the OP was cited on has many portions that have a 65mph maximum.

  3. #13
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting B.Frank
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    It addresses the "what is the best thing to do"? part.

    In summary my answer is:
    -TBWD
    -Make a respectfully but compelling argument
    -Ask for traffic school and a fine reduction if you lose
    - Do not do Trial de Novo
    Alas, it does not. His goal was to maximize his chances of NOT having the ticket on his record and NOT appear in the remote court. His best option given his goals is to jump on traffic school as soon as it is available to him.
    Your solution won't work. The only option after losing the TBWD is to ask for a Trial De Novo. Then you might get traffic school.

    Take another look at 22349. The maximum speed limit is normally 65 mph unless posted as 70. It is 55 mph in specific circumstances. The highway the OP was cited on has many portions that have a 65mph maximum.
    Say what? No, I am quite familiar with it. If you are an undivided highway, the maximum is 55. His description fits with him being on an undivided highway and there is no section of HWY 65 in southern California that is divided (though it's not clear where he was exactly because there's no Highway 65 in LA County. Its southernmost point is in Bakersfield).

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    326

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting B.Frank
    View Post
    In summary my answer is:
    -TBWD
    -Make a respectfully but compelling argument
    -Ask for traffic school and a fine reduction if you lose
    - Do not do Trial de Novo
    Note that if you do TBWD and lose, you will almost certainly not get traffic school, no matter what you say in the statement. You will have to either request Trial de Novo and then ask for it, if you lose, or ask to be re-arraigned so you can get before a judge and request traffic school. In both of these options, you'd have to actually go to court which, in O/Ps case is a 170 drive that I assume he doesn't want to do.

  5. #15

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting zeljo
    Note that if you do TBWD and lose, you will almost certainly not get traffic school
    I am curious what courts are doing this. I've never once heard of this. I was offered traffic school after losing my TBWD. If there are courts doing this consistently to every TBWD, this practice is certainly unethical and likely unlawful.(Wozniak)

  6. #16
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    Mar 2018
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    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting B.Frank
    View Post
    I am curious what courts are doing this. I've never once heard of this. I was offered traffic school after losing my TBWD. If there are courts doing this consistently to every TBWD, this practice is certainly unethical and likely unlawful.(Wozniak)
    How exactly were you offered traffic school after losing trial by written declaration? It's not that they per se deny it; it's just that the outcome of TBWD is either win or lose. In the latter case, they take your bail, and that's it. You are mailed the judge's decision... it's a form letter, with no option to go to traffic school, like there is on the initial courtesy notice.

  7. #17
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    There's no option after a TBD decision but to live with it or request a TDN. Once you make the latter request, you can try again for traffic school. Once the TDN is filed, your conviction is again on hold. The law provides for no other option on the court's part.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
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    506

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    There's no option after a TBD decision but to live with it or request a TDN. Once you make the latter request, you can try again for traffic school. Once the TDN is filed, your conviction is again on hold. The law provides for no other option on the court's part.
    A conviction after a TBD is no different legally from a conviction after a court trial. Vehicle Code §41501(a) states:
    "After a deposit of bail and bail forfeiture, a plea of guilty or no contest, or a conviction, the court may order a continuance of a proceeding against a person, who receives a notice to appear in court for a violation of a statute relating to the safe operation of a vehicle, in consideration for successful completion of a course of instruction at a licensed school for traffic violators"

    There is no need for OP to request a TDN. A conviction was entered and California Rules of Court Rule 4.104(c)(2) states:
    "A defendant who is otherwise eligible for traffic violator school is not made ineligible by entering a plea other than guilty or by exercising his or her right to trial. A traffic violator school request must be considered based on the individual circumstances of the specific case."

    A court's discretion to grant or deny a request for traffic violator school cannot encompass a blanket refusal to permit traffic school to all defendants who requested traffic school after TBD. OP just needs to call the court and request traffic school and, if otherwise eligible, it should be granted.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    326

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting Jim Kozlovich
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    A court's discretion to grant or deny a request for traffic violator school cannot encompass a blanket refusal to permit traffic school to all defendants who requested traffic school after TBD. OP just needs to call the court and request traffic school and, if otherwise eligible, it should be granted.
    I'd be very curious to see how that turns out. At that time O/P would have been convicted, trial over. I don't think the traffic court clerk can give him traffic school at that point; he'd have to see a judge. Hence my earlier response 10:51am 9/5. If O/P decides to go for TBD, he better be ready to drive to show up before a judge if he loses that and wants traffic school.

    Incidentally, chances of him winning this particular TBD are slim and none, coming down to hoping the officer doesn't submit his statement. Thus, his sole and only good option is to plead guilty via mail and ask for traffic school.

  10. #20
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    Jul 2016
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    Paso Robles, California
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    506

    Default Re: What is the Best Thing to Do After Being Cited 22349 B VC

    Quote Quoting zeljo
    View Post
    I'd be very curious to see how that turns out. At that time O/P would have been convicted, trial over.
    If you want to see how it turns out see People v. Wozniak (1987) 197 Cal.App.3d Supp 43, 45.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

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