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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
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    Default Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Michigan

    May son was recently in an accident on the way home from school. It was reported by passengers that he was going "55-60" on a dirt road where the speed limit is 55. The violation cited was "too fast for conditions". It was light out and dry conditions. Are there grounds to fight this?

    He was also ticketed for having too many passengers with him while on his GDL. However the SOS GDL restrictions state that it is limited to one passenger under 21 unless it is to and from school or a school-sanctioned activity. He was on his way home from school.

    While we want our son to learn his lesson, and will make sure he does, do we have grounds to argue against these citations to avoid a higher increase in insurance?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    3,221

    Default Re: Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    Tell us about the accident. I'm willing to bet it was due to the speed he was driving. The accident is evidence of the violation.

    As to the too many passenger charge, your defense would be that he was coming from school.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    It sounds like that offense contains an element that requires the officer/state to prove that the accident was a result of your speed. Depending upon what your son and the other witnesses said at the accident scene, if the officer did not personally witness the accident he may have difficulty proving this element to the necessary degree of certainty and a good attorney or defendant could likely cast sufficient doubt on the circumstantial evidence the officer is relying upon.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
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    Default Re: Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    When a deer ran into the road he swerved into the loose gravel at the side of the road. He hit the slight incline of the bank next to the road. The vehicle hit a tree and rolled in a cornfield.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    17,125

    Default Re: Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    So, we have an inexperienced teenage driver going 55-60 on a dirt road. That alone would be too fast for conditions and I suspect that he may have been going faster than that and his friends are covering for him.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    Quote Quoting ali9913
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    When a deer ran into the road he swerved into the loose gravel at the side of the road. He hit the slight incline of the bank next to the road. The vehicle hit a tree and rolled in a cornfield.

    You need to teach your kid not to swerve in a situation like this.

    Curious did you son tell the LEO that he swerved to miss a deer? I there some reason you didn't tell us that to start with?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    15,606

    Default Re: Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
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    You need to teach your kid not to swerve in a situation like this.

    Curious did you son tell the LEO that he swerved to miss a deer? I there some reason you didn't tell us that to start with?
    One can never really know whether hitting the deer dead on would have been worse that losing some momentum before hitting the tree.

  8. #8
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    One can never really know whether hitting the deer dead on would have been worse that losing some momentum before hitting the tree.
    You lose momentum by hitting the brakes not by swerving. It is never a good idea to but the car in a less stable condition prior to an accident. Also, a modern car is 999 times out of 1000 going to not injure the occupants when a deer is hit. Going out of lane into another car or a tree, like was the case with the OP's sone often will.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,728

    Default Re: Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    One can never really know whether hitting the deer dead on would have been worse that losing some momentum before hitting the tree.
    It is generally accepted hitting the deer is the safer action. Once you decide to take evasive action, all bets are off as to where you’re going to end up. Given the car rolled in the case at hand, not only would it have been safer to hit the deer, the damage would likely have been less.


    Living in deer country (which is pretty much anywhere in Michigan), we are often bombarded with the advice to stay straight on the road and hit the deer if that is the result.


    Ali9913:

    i have to assume your child has a level 2 license. Level one doesn’t allow the other minors in the car no matter where they were going to or coming from.

    hopefully the accident was on a reasonable path from the school to your home or one of the students homes. Even though they were coming from school, your sons restrictions do not allow them to wander all over (joy riding) and use the “we were coming from school” as a defense.



    Since the driver was speeding, there isn’t much defense to a charge of driving too fast for conditions. He was speeding. He was driving too fast...period. If you hire a lawyer you may be able to get the driving too fast for conditions reduced to just a speeding ticket. It’s going to depend on the court more than anything.

    And as another said; the 55-60 is what the other kids are attesting to which is possibly not entirely accurate. (Btw; his actual speed can be pulled from the cars computers if it isn’t an ancient car)


    One problem with ghost deer is there is no proof there was actually a deer. Deer and other mobile critters are often blamed for accidents. If there is no proof of the moving target other than witnesses that were within the affected vehicle, such claims may be discounted as a convenient excuse for the accident.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    315

    Default Re: Ticket- Too Fast for Conditions- Good Weather, Middle of Day

    I'm afraid the accident is his fault, and exactly due to the speed being "too fast for conditions." The reasoning is that, had he gone slower, he would have avoided the deer. As for the other ticket, he should testify in court he was going to/from school, have his friends back him up, if necessary. That one should be defeated in court, as there is no way anyone can disprove where they were going... especially since it is true . I would also remind your kid that the driver is supposed to scan ahead and side-to-side for risks, such as a deer. If there was no visibility to the sides, he should have slowed down.

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