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  1. #1
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    Default Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap

    Quote Quoting jk
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    A failure to expose the fraud does not make op complicit. That suggest anybody that sees a crime and fails to report it is complicit in that crime. Are you actually suggesting that is correct? If so, that would mean every time I see a person speeding and don’t report it I’m somehow complicit in the act..
    Your analogy to one who simply witnesses a crime is absurd. While the word "may" may have been a better choice than "will" in the last sentence of my prior response, I otherwise stand by it. The OP's girlfriend has involved the OP in her crime. Now that the OP knows about it, he/she is at risk if he/she fails to do anything about it.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap

    Quote Quoting pg1067
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    Your analogy to one who simply witnesses a crime is absurd. While the word "may" may have been a better choice than "will" in the last sentence of my prior response, I otherwise stand by it. The OP's girlfriend has involved the OP in her crime. Now that the OP knows about it, he/she is at risk if he/she fails to do anything about it.
    if he does nothing, he commits no crime. Obviously if he becomes involved such as responding affirmatively to a landlord making an inquiry regarding the fraudulent document, then of course he is complicit and part of the crime itself.

    My analogy was spot on as long as the guy does nothing to involve himself. Witnessing a crime is and failing to report said, in most situations, crime is not a crime as it does not cause one to be involved in the crime. There is no difference between witnessing an act of fraud and observing a speeding car. They are both crimes and unless you become actually involved in the illegal action, failing to report the crime does not make you a criminal.


    Taxing matters: standing silent if one is asked about the “facts” by a party who would be the victim of the fraud is participation. At that point he would be acting to conceal the truth which of course makes him complicit. I am not speaking to such a situation. What I am saying is the guy is not a party to the crime by not actively reporting the actions to either the authorities or the victim.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap

    Quote Quoting jk
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    What I am saying is the guy is not a party to the crime by not actively reporting the actions to either the authorities or the victim.
    That may be so, but reporting it would go a long way toward the police and prosecutor believing he had no active participation in it. So he has a choice to make. First, he can stay silent and hope that the fraud is not discovered or, if it is, that the prosecutor and police will believe he wasn't involved in it. Second, he can report it to the authorities or at least inform the landlord the documents are false, which should clear him of suspicion of being involved. Finally, he can try covering up for the girlfriend and thus put himself in jeopardy of conviction on that offense even if he doesn't go down for involvement in the crime itself.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    That may be so, but reporting it would go a long way toward the police and prosecutor believing he had no active participation in it. So he has a choice to make. First, he can stay silent and hope that the fraud is not discovered or, if it is, that the prosecutor and police will believe he wasn't involved in it. Second, he can report it to the authorities or at least inform the landlord the documents are false, which should clear him of suspicion of being involved. Finally, he can try covering up for the girlfriend and thus put himself in jeopardy of conviction on that offense even if he doesn't go down for involvement in the crime itself.
    well, I can’t suggest the guy rat out his girlfriend for something like this.

    But regardless, unless he somehow participates in the crime he is not guilty of committing a crime as page1067 states he would be. That was my point.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap

    Quote Quoting jk
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    But regardless, unless he somehow participates in the crime he is not guilty of committing a crime as page1067 states he would be. That was my point.
    When did I state that?

    Let's review what I actually wrote.

    "[T]the fact that she has tangentially involved you definitely puts you at risk."

    and

    "Now that you know what she has done, if you fail to expose it and continue your relationship with this criminal, you will make yourself complicit in her conduct." I subsequently stated that "may" may have been a better word than "will."

    I then wrote that, because "[t]he OP's girlfriend has involved the OP in her crime . . . now that the OP knows about it, he/she is at risk if he/she fails to do anything about it."

    I also wrote a couple of other things like how the analogy you made was absurd, but that's beside the point.

    Nowhere did I write that the OP has committed a crime. Being "complicit in her conduct" is not the same thing as committing a crime.


    Quote Quoting jk
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    well, I can’t suggest the guy rat out his girlfriend for something like this.
    I have a very hard time believing you lack this ability. More likely, you are choosing not to do so.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap

    Quote Quoting pg1067
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    When did I state that?

    Let's review what I actually wrote.

    "[T]the fact that she has tangentially involved you definitely puts you at risk."

    and

    "Now that you know what she has done, if you fail to expose it and continue your relationship with this criminal, you will make yourself complicit in her conduct." I subsequently stated that "may" may have been a better word than "will."

    I then wrote that, because "[t]he OP's girlfriend has involved the OP in her crime . . . now that the OP knows about it, he/she is at risk if he/she fails to do anything about it."

    I also wrote a couple of other things like how the analogy you made was absurd, but that's beside the point.

    Nowhere did I write that the OP has committed a crime. Being "complicit in her conduct" is not the same thing as committing a crime.




    I have a very hard time believing you lack this ability. More likely, you are choosing not to do so.

    touche. Yes, I could actually suggest the guy rat out his girlfriend but my statement was not referring to a physical capacity. When a person says they can’t do something, it often is meant in a metaphorical way more than whether one actually has a capacity to perform the act. I am really starting to doubt your credentials. Anybody with much sense would understand it was said in the figurative sense rather than the literal sense. I guess that explains your inability to perceived the rhetorical question i posed earlier. I thought you were deeper than this (again, just so you know, metaphorical, not literal).


    This is your statement

    Now that you know what she has done, if you fail to expose it and continue your relationship with this criminal, you will make yourself complicit in her conduct.


    will or may doesn’t change the statement such that it removes a claim the op would be committing a crime should they not report the activity. Your statement is that unless he reports it, and for some reason you have also required the continued association with the woman which for,the life of me I can’t figure out how that would be a requisite for any possible crime involved, he will or may (depending on the version ofmthe statement ) make himself complicit in her conduct.

    Obviously none of what you stated is true.

    Knowing does not make him complicit
    remaining with her doesn’t make him complicit
    failing to report the subject activity doesn’t make him complicit

    nor may those actions make him complicit, in a legal liability sense.

    it would require some other action, and actually require none of the issues you stated, to make the guy complicit in her actions.


    But im simply baffled by your statement that remaining associated with the woman would have anything to do with whether the guy has committed a crime. Now, maybe you know something I don’t. It is generally accepted that felons are are at least urged if not outright barred from associating with other known felons. Are you aware that the op is a felon and prohibited from associating with other known felons? Would that apply even before or even if she is not convicted? Curious minds want to know.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap

    Quote Quoting jk
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    well, I can’t suggest the guy rat out his girlfriend for something like this.
    Perhaps you wouldn't do it, but I would. Indeed, if I were in the OP shoes I'd let the landlord know what was going on, probably right after I dumped the girlfriend. I've seen what happens when people get involved with others who have no trouble lying to get what they want. Sooner or later that liar will lie to their lover/spouse, too. Trusting someone whom you know to be a liar is foolish. If you think that person will never lie to you, then you have the additional problem that you are deceiving yourself.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap

    I would probably counsel the person and tell them how bad of an idea it is. Sometimes people’s intentions are great but the execution sucks. Without knowing the people it may be as much poor judgment as it is a true intent to lie. Ive seen parents do all sorts of stupid things to help their kids.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Am I at Risk if I Unknowingly Was Included on a Fraudulent W-2 Form for Rental Ap

    Quote Quoting jk
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    I would probably counsel the person and tell them how bad of an idea it is. Sometimes people’s intentions are great but the execution sucks. Without knowing the people it may be as much poor judgment as it is a true intent to lie. Ive seen parents do all sorts of stupid things to help their kids.
    I have a very hard time believing that someone who creates a false W-2 with the name of a fictitious employer and fills out the rental application listing that fictitious employer as the son's current employer does not understand that what she is doing is lying and dishonest. That's not just "poor execution" or poor judgment. There are some things that I'd put in the category of simply poor judgment, but this is well over the line to dishonesty and fraud.

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