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  1. #1
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    Default If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction

    No political discussion, please - I just want legal facts/opinions.

    If the President instructs Don McGahn to fire the Special Counsel, and Don McGahn says no, and no action is taken, and the investigation is not impeded by the President's conversation with Don McGahn, did the President still obstruct justice? That's the way some are painting it, but is it really the case? If so, how?

    Curious... thanks.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction


  3. #3
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    Default Re: If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction

    The answer is no plain and simple.

    The president is the chief executive officer. If he asks his underling to do something and the underling doesn't do it and nothing more is done, then it's over. There is no obstruction of justice no matter how the pundits want to paint it.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    The answer is no plain and simple.
    Thank you Chief Justice Budwad for your well thought out opinion.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction

    Your welcome.

    You will need to identify what the underlying crime is that there was an attempt to obstruct. You posted the statute. What is the underlying crime?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction

    17 1512

    (3) hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense or a violation of conditions of probation [1] supervised release,,[1] parole, or release pending judicial proceedings;


    That said. I don't think he is guilty of obstruction. But this wording alone dismisses your post that said, "The answer is no plain and simple."

  7. #7
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    Default Re: If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction

    Nice try but you're way off base. I guess you don't understand that the President is the boss of the executive branch. He can hire and fire anyone he chooses for whatever reason.

    You just can't get past the fact that this entire investigation was a perpetrated hoax and now the people that are responsible for it will pay.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    Nice try but you're way off base. I guess you don't understand that the President is the boss of the executive branch. He can hire and fire anyone he chooses for whatever reason.

    You just can't get past the fact that this entire investigation was a perpetrated hoax and now the people that are responsible for it will pay.
    I hate that I'm arguing the left's side on this. But while the President has the power to fire any appointed employee of the executive branch, if he does so to "hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense or a violation of conditions of probation [1] supervised release,,[1] parole, or release pending judicial proceedings" a case could be made for Obstruction of Justice under the US Code I quoted.

    It doesn't matter if there was an actual crime. There was a legally constituted investigation of the possible commission of one.

    The only way "the people that are responsible for it will pay" will be if the Democrats are voted out of office or a Dem isn't voted into office.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
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    if he does so to "hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense or a violation of conditions of probation [1] supervised release,,[1] parole, or release pending judicial proceedings" a case could be made for Obstruction of Justice under the US Code I quoted.
    Ok, that makes sense. If he directed Mcgahn to fire Mueller, and Mcgahn actually fired Mueller, or attempted to, I can easily see a case for the President being guilty of obstruction (well, charged to begin with).

    But, If he directed Mcgahn to fire Mueller in order to hinder, delay, or prevent Mueller's investigation, and if Mcgahn did not act on it, is THAT obstruction by the President?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: If Trump Directs Mcgahn to Fire Mueller, is That Really Obstruction

    Quote Quoting riffwraith
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    Ok, that makes sense. If he directed Mcgahn to fire Mueller, and Mcgahn actually fired Mueller, or attempted to, I can easily see a case for the President being guilty of obstruction (well, charged to begin with).

    But, If he directed Mcgahn to fire Mueller in order to hinder, delay, or prevent Mueller's investigation, and if Mcgahn did not act on it, is THAT obstruction by the President?

    That is something that a court may have to decide some day.

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