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  1. #1
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    Default Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsable

    My question involves court procedures for the state of: Arizona
    I'm facing a $100.00 fine for violating my city's (Surprise) dog park rules. The city has four dog parks. Two for small dogs and two for large dogs. The small dog parks have signs limiting the weight to 20 lbs. My dogs are over 20 lbs. and were in one of the small dog parks. We have been going there for over 4 years and there has been never an incident or complaint. There are no city ordinances or laws (verified) establishing this limit nor is there a law or ordinance number posted on the sign. Is this limitation legal and or enforceable?

  2. #2
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsa

    What is the code section (number) of the statute you have been cited for violating?
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsa

    There's none listed. Just "Violation of 20 lb. rule in dog park".

    None written. Just "violation of the 20 lb. rule in dog park".

  4. #4
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    California
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    Default Re: Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsa

    That's ... unusual. I know that in some states minor offenses are listed textually and later filed under the appropriate statute. But, My experience with AZ was that it was similar to CA in that a citation would include the statute.

    Unfortunately, I do not know if AZ law allows such regulations to be enforceable if not backed by a specific city ordinance. I suspect that there is an ordinance justifying the weight limit signage, but can't say for sure. I'm unable to find it specifically in your city's muni code, though.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  5. #5
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    May 2019
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    Default Re: Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsa

    I did say that I verified (2 days in my computer) the fact there's no code, ordinance or law supporting this limitation. So the question remains.......legal?...enforceable?
    What I didn't say is that I refused to yield to the female animal control officer's demands. As a matter of fact, several people spoke to the officer in support for us being there.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsa

    Quote Quoting freealfin
    View Post
    My question involves court procedures for the state of: Arizona
    I'm facing a $100.00 fine for violating my city's (Surprise) dog park rules. The city has four dog parks. Two for small dogs and two for large dogs. The small dog parks have signs limiting the weight to 20 lbs. My dogs are over 20 lbs. and were in one of the small dog parks.
    So, you knew the rule and disobeyed it anyway.

    Quote Quoting freealfin
    View Post
    We have been going there for over 4 years and there has been never an incident or complaint.
    This may be a ridiculous comparison but you could rob banks for 4 years and never have an incident or complaint, until you do.

    Quote Quoting freealfin
    View Post
    There are no city ordinances or laws (verified) establishing this limit nor is there a law or ordinance number posted on the sign. Is this limitation legal and or enforceable?
    I'm guessing that, somewhere, the parks department is given the authority to set and enforce rules for use of the parks. I doubt if a city judge will agree that you aren't guilty because it's not codified as an ordinance.

    But if you want to raise a defense here is some information for you.

    On 6/18/19 the City of Surprise adopted ordinance section 38-32 relating to dog parks:

    https://library.municode.com/az/surp...?nodeId=965473

    Note that the violations listed in that ordinance do not exactly conform with the dog park rules:

    https://www.surpriseaz.gov/DocumentC...k-Rules?bidId=

    You could try arguing that the intent of the city council was to limit the violations to only those codified in the ordinance and that limitation on size is not a violation.

    Go ahead and plead not guilty if you like and please come back and report the results.

  7. #7
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    May 2019
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    Default Re: Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsa

    Aside from the comments by people of low IQ's (you know who you are) yours are encouraging and well thought. Thank you. We'l see.

  8. #8
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsa

    Quote Quoting freealfin
    View Post
    I did say that I verified (2 days in my computer) the fact there's no code, ordinance or law supporting this limitation. So the question remains.......legal?...enforceable?
    What I didn't say is that I refused to yield to the female animal control officer's demands. As a matter of fact, several people spoke to the officer in support for us being there.
    Legal or enforceable? That might also depend on whether or not there is a statute/ordinance permitting the appropriate director from establishing limiting regulations at the park. You are certainly free to contest the citation and see where you can go with it and cite an apparent lack of a statute allowing for a weight limit at the park. Absent any statute specifically on point or granting such regulatory authority on the appropriate director, you might well prevail.

    Quote Quoting freealfin
    View Post
    Aside from the comments by people of low IQ's (you know who you are) yours are encouraging and well thought. Thank you. We'l see.
    Hmmm ... wow, you are a pompous and arrogant jackass, aren't you? Low IQ ... huh.

    Please feel free to crawl back beneath your rock ... and good luck to you.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    7,348

    Default Re: Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsa

    Quote Quoting freealfin
    View Post
    My question involves court procedures for the state of: Arizona
    There are no city ordinances or laws (verified) establishing this limit nor is there a law or ordinance number posted on the sign. Is this limitation legal and or enforceable?
    If it is true that no ordinance prohibited what you did then the limitation on the sign is not enforceable. However, I note that the Surprise city ordinance 38-32(6) arguably provides the authority the city needs. It prohibits having an animal in any place where those animals are prohibited by posted notice. Since the posted notice in the park prohibits dogs over 20 pounds, it would appear that you violated that ordinance. If you did violate that statute then the fact that you have gone there for years without incident won't help you.

  10. #10
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    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Is a Sign Prohibiting Somthing Without the Backing of an Ordinance or Law Enforsa

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    However, I note that the Surprise city ordinance 38-32(6) arguably provides the authority the city needs.

    38-32(a)(6) With the exception of a service animal or prior written of the director, allow their animal to be present on a sports field, recreational field or other place where animals are prohibited by a written posted notice.

    Yep, that could do it.

    Quote Quoting freealfin
    View Post
    What I didn't say is that I refused to yield to the female animal control officer's demands.
    The attitude is probably what got you cited.

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