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  1. #1

    Default Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: MICHIGAN

    I work in Michigan at a hotel.

    My boss has been verbally-abusive towards all the employees where I am, and has written me up on disciplinary reports for things like not wringing out a mop correctly and has threatened to fire me.

    The last two disciplinary reports I signed with my name and V.C. (Vi Coactus) after my name.

    Today will be my third write-up when I come to work tonight, and that will be because I was sweeping the lobby with a different type of broom than that one he wanted me to use. (Though I wasn't aware of it at the time)

    He has been screaming at other employees as well every day and threatening to fire them for small things.

    I need to know that tonight when I tell him that I signed the last two disciplinary reports with V.C. that they still count as voiding the document.

    When I originally heard about Vi Coactus I didn't realize it was usually put before the signature, but I am hoping it will count even though it was added after my signature.

    Thank you for your time.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Default Re: Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    Quote Quoting MichiganWorker
    View Post
    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: MICHIGAN

    I work in Michigan at a hotel.

    My boss has been verbally-abusive towards all the employees where I am, and has written me up on disciplinary reports for things like not wringing out a mop correctly and has threatened to fire me.

    The last two disciplinary reports I signed with my name and V.C. (Vi Coactus) after my name.

    Today will be my third write-up when I come to work tonight, and that will be because I was sweeping the lobby with a different type of broom than that one he wanted me to use. (Though I wasn't aware of it at the time)

    He has been screaming at other employees as well every day and threatening to fire them for small things.

    I need to know that tonight when I tell him that I signed the last two disciplinary reports with V.C. that they still count as voiding the document.

    When I originally heard about Vi Coactus I didn't realize it was usually put before the signature, but I am hoping it will count even though it was added after my signature.

    Thank you for your time.

    So what do you hope to accomplish by this? What duress are you claiming to be under? Is he holding a gun to your head? Threatening your loved ones with harm?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    15,523

    Default Re: Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    Quote Quoting MichiganWorker
    View Post
    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: MICHIGAN

    I work in Michigan at a hotel.

    My boss has been verbally-abusive towards all the employees where I am, and has written me up on disciplinary reports for things like not wringing out a mop correctly and has threatened to fire me.

    The last two disciplinary reports I signed with my name and V.C. (Vi Coactus) after my name.

    Today will be my third write-up when I come to work tonight, and that will be because I was sweeping the lobby with a different type of broom than that one he wanted me to use. (Though I wasn't aware of it at the time)

    He has been screaming at other employees as well every day and threatening to fire them for small things.

    I need to know that tonight when I tell him that I signed the last two disciplinary reports with V.C. that they still count as voiding the document.

    When I originally heard about Vi Coactus I didn't realize it was usually put before the signature, but I am hoping it will count even though it was added after my signature.

    Thank you for your time.
    I hate to tell you this, but putting that either before or after your signature is not going to stop you from being fired. Whether you signed it under duress or not is irrelevant. They didn't actually NEED you to sign it at all. It may be their policy to have you do so, but its not a requirement.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    Writing "Vi Coactus" before or after (or above or below) your signature on a disciplinary report does not legally void said disciplinary report. Period. It is a waste of ink.

    Absent a legally enforceable contract that states otherwise, your employer is legally free to fire you for pretty much any reason, including no reason. In law, disciplinary reports don't count, whether or not they have "Vi Coactus" (or anything else, for that matter) written on them.

  5. #5
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    Jul 2018
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    1,548

    Default Re: Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    You're not going to get different answers here than you got at the other site where you posted it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    7,353

    Default Re: Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    I'll repeat here what I told you in another forum to aid others who may come across this thread.

    I'm sorry to tell you that the Latin phrase vi coactus is not one found in American law. It appears nowhere in Black's Law Dictionary, 10th Ed. which is the long established leading legal dictionary used by lawyers and the courts in the U.S. (The 10th Ed. has just been replaced by 11th Ed. this year, so it is still very current.) Nor does it appear in any Michigan case law or, indeed, the case law of any state. My research indicates that the phrase has been used, though very infrequently, in English law. So in England maybe it would have some effect. But it has no effect here.

    The purpose of signing with that phrase before your signature in English law is to indicate that you are signing the document under duress. If you were truly under duress then in the U.S. you don't need that phrase. Agreements you sign under duress are not enforceable against you. But most Americans misunderstand what duress means. Duress means that you were compelled to sign under threat of physical force (e.g. "I'll break your kneecaps if you don't sign") or that some other form of ILLEGAL pressure was applied to induce you to sign. Your employer has the right to fire you for pretty much any reason, so a threat to fire you if you don't sign is not duress. Using VC wouldn't change that even if it were recognized in the U.S.

    The bottom line here is that your use of VC either before or after your name was ineffective and useless. It did not alter the effect of your signature on the document. That said, when it comes to performance reviews, the commonly accepted view is that signing a performance review/disciplinary write up typically means only that you acknowledge that the review was shared with you, not that you agree to your manager's criticisms unless the document expressly states that you do agree with it.

    I suggest you not argue the VC thing to your employer. It will do you no good and it is likely to make the employer think you are unwilling to listen to his reviews and requests for improvement, which is a pretty sure way to be shown the door.

  7. #7
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    Luca Brasi held a gun to his head, and my father assured him that either his brains or his signature would be on the contract.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    Luca Brasi held a gun to his head, and my father assured him that either his brains or his signature would be on the contract.
    That was an offer he couldn't refuse.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    Please see how OP responded to the information provided by our Esteemed Colleagues over on FreeAdvice. It appears OP is not interested in our expertise, he is just looking for a venue to spew vitriol.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    284

    Default Re: Can I Sign a Document with V.c. (Vi Coactus) After My Name, Instead of Before

    Agree with all other answers but I will waste my time and add one more.

    What is your legal citation supporting your theory of the law? The law has been around a long time. It changes over time but not drastically absent an actual statutory law being passed. If you cannot find that one case supporting your view then you have basically no chance barring something like a lightning strike. Like a judge using really good recreational drugs hearing your case. Which of course would be promptly overturned by any clean and sober judge. To look at the other way, you are obviously not an attorney, have no legal understanding or knowledge of the law, but you feel that you and only you have managed to find the magic bullet that over turns centuries of civil, regulation, statutory law to the contrary. Because this is a very well established legal principal you are trying to overturn. It would require a SCOTUS level court decision to do so. Or Congress passing a new law. If there were a betting site where I could put $100 that you would get stomped in court, I would do so.

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