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  1. #21
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    Default Re: What Are the Children Repsonsibele for when a Person Dies

    Just reading what budwad posted (didn’t read the state specific link throughly) I don’t see where it states third party guarantees are not allowed under federal law. The citation posted doesn’t say that . It states an admission to a facility where Medicare or Medicaid is the source of payment cannot mandate a third party guarantor. I don’t see that as actually outlawing third party guarantors.

    It simply states having a third party guarantor cannot be a condition of admission. That just means the facility can’t refuse to admit the person unless there is a third party guarantor. There is a difference between mandating a guarantor to permit admission and voluntary acceptance as the guarantor.


    Regardless, there is a difference between statutory based filial liability and intentionally accepting the role of guarantor. It appears various states apply the filial liability laws differently to such a debt as well.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: What Are the Children Repsonsibele for when a Person Dies

    JK, it is federal law that was cited. Not state law.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: What Are the Children Repsonsibele for when a Person Dies

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    JK, it is federal law that was cited. Not state law.

    Im missing your point. I know you cited federal law. Your point?

    The law you cited does not prohibit third party guarantors. It prohibits the requirement of a third party guarantor to admit or continue the residence of a patient. There can be a third party guarantor. It’s just that it can’t be a mandatory part of admission or continued residence.

    It also does not conflict with filial liability laws in any given state. Each state is allowed to determine how it affects their law. In one state I read if iit was deemed it severed the filial liability. In another it didn’t. It’s up to the state to make that call.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: What Are the Children Repsonsibele for when a Person Dies

    If the Federal law prohibits a third-party guarantor, under what circumstances would someone personally guarantee the payment to the facility that is being paid by Medicare or Medicaid?

    It also does not conflict with filial liability laws in any given state
    Well it does in NJ. Did you read the link I provided?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: What Are the Children Repsonsibele for when a Person Dies

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    If the Federal law prohibits a third-party guarantor, under what circumstances would someone personally guarantee the payment to the facility that is being paid by Medicare or Medicaid?



    Well it does in NJ. Did you read the link I provided?
    the federal does not prohibit a third party guarantor, at least the statute you posted. It only prohibits the facility predicate an admission or continued stay on there being a third party guarantor. In others words (in the simplest of explanations) the facility could request there be a third party guarantor but could not refuse admission if nobody agreed to be a guarantor. That doesn’t mean a person couldn’t still agree to be a third party guarantor.


    As to your comment about New Jersey. That’s New Jersey. I didn’t say in all states. I said it varies. If I recall the article I read, I believe it was P.A. that ruled the opposite.

    Additionally the filial liability law has nothing to do with a contracted third party guarantor. In fact, they are exclusive isssues.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: What Are the Children Repsonsibele for when a Person Dies

    Your response sounds like doublespeak to me.

    Have it your way although I disagree with your position.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: What Are the Children Repsonsibele for when a Person Dies

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    Your response sounds like doublespeak to me.

    Have it your way although I disagree with your position.
    ok, in a serious attempt at civility and honest discourse.


    do you disagree with my position on the federal law younposted? Does it address anything other than specifically admissions or continuation of residency and a prohibition to requiring a third party guarantor regarding those two limited issues?

    if so, can you explain how you can interpret the plain English writing in the statute any differently? What else would it apply to?

  8. #28
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    Default Re: What Are the Children Repsonsibele for when a Person Dies

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    If the Federal law prohibits a third-party guarantor, under what circumstances would someone personally guarantee the payment to the facility that is being paid by Medicare or Medicaid?
    Just to be clear, the federal law you cited only prohibits "skilled nursing facilities" (e.g. long term care facilities) from requiring third party guarantees when determining the admission of a person or for allowing the person to stay in the facility if the facility will be getting paid from Medicare or Medicaid. So the prohibition is pretty narrow; it does not apply to medical bills of doctors, hospitals, or any other provider other than a skilled nursing facility.

    And the article you posted states just that: "Federal law prohibits states from considering the financial responsibility of any individual, other than the spouse, in determining the eligibility of an applicant or recipient of Medicaid or other assistance programs. Federal law also prohibits third-party guarantee of payment to a long-term care facility, as a condition of admission or residence in the facility, with the exception of an individual exercising durable power of attorney, an order of guardianship, or other valid authorization." (underlining added). Note the first sentence only restricts the states from considering financial responsibility of others, except the spouse, in the determining the eligibility for Medicaid or other federal assistance programs run in partnership with the states. So that sentence has nothing to do with this issue other than a restriction on the states in their administration of these federal programs. The second sentence notes the skilled care facility restriction for Medicare/Medicaid residents.

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