Is a Protection Order Likely to Be Granted

[Arti]

My question involves restraining orders in the State of: New York

Hello,

A couple days ago my decade long estranged mother corned myself and my daughter during shopping checkout. I told her to leave us alone, but she continued to cause a scene, ranting at us, and threatened to call CPS. The cashier called for a manager, and he made her leave my space.

During bagging, she came at us again, this time holding up a camera, ranting, and taking pics of both of us. I told her to leave us alone again, but she turned to my daughter and told her how we were liars and brainwashers. The cashier noticed this, and came to tell her to leave us alone and she couldn't take pictures. My mother turned on her, and shouted she had rights and could take whatever pics she wanted. Cashier called the manager again who made her leave the area again, and stayed with us to make sure she wouldn't come back. There was more ranting in the parking lot, but I left as soon as I could and ignored it.

My mother is vindictive crazy, and has called CPS on us 3 times, numerous well-checks, a failed GPV suit, and more. She has also friended anyone I was ever associated with on Facebook to smear myself and my husband. Besides the character assassination, she has also disclosed my place of work- encouraging people to ambush me, repeatedly says my husbands name, which would no doubt come up if an employer searched for him, encouraged an estranged relative to come over and 'say hi', and also recently encouraged someone to come here to beat my husband up. She has also asked people who see us out in public or my children playing in the yard to take photos of them. She regularly does background checks on me, and posts whatever pics she finds. It's pretty crazy, and has altered how we live our lives and who we share ourselves with.

I called the police to document the incident, and he suggested I file for an order of protection, which I did yesterday. Both my daughter and I were frightened by the confrontation, and I do not know how she will react with this face to face interaction- what kind of punishment she will dole out, who she will send here, and what they might do. I feel like now she knows she has nothing to lose, since my daughter (her obsession) shut her down. I am afraid to leave the home, or go on planned activities with my kids. My mother saw our car, which is very distinctive, and I expect she would see it and come at me again if out in public. This interaction was with my oldest child, but I do have 4 younger ones who would be even more upset to have this happen.

I feel like the long history of abuse by proxy and threats to beat up my husband, antagonize me at work, and picture stalking combined with this incident and my fears should get us a little protection, but the officer said it didn't sound like she actually broke any laws.

Does this sound like we have a case to have this order of protection granted? Thanks so much for any advice or help. I am willing to elaborate on any details if needed.

[PayrolGuy]

Sound to me like a really good case for a protection order.

[Mercy&Grace]

There is nothing illegal about her telling people to take pictures of your children, come by to say hi, etc. If these things were done. It would not be your mothers responsibility. In situations like what happened at the store. You need to call the store manager or 911. You need police reports for proof. But unless she tries to physically harm you or your child. I agree with the police officer there is not enough for a protective order.

The best thing you can do is ignore her. I realize how difficult this can be to do. But if she did not get a reaction out of you, your child or husband. She will eventually stop. If you take her to court and there is not enough for a protective order. There is no telling how her behavior could escalate.

How old is your child ? If your child is school age. be sure the Entire office staff and the principal know your mother is not to have access to your child under any circumstances.

[Arti]

Thank you for your response.

I do realize her telling and encouraging people to do the more innocent things isn't illegal, but the encouragement of violence against my husband certainly seems too much. I do have screenshots of all of these posts, but never defended myself in any way, other than to respond to CPS allegations and well-checks.

Unfortunately, we have been completely ignoring her for 11 years now and she has NOT stopped her behaviors toward us. She might be quiet for a while, but then something will ramp her up and she'll start going off on social media or having 3rd parties blow up my inlaws phone (she doesn't have access to my numbers). However, the store event was the first time since August 2008 that I have seen her in person, and she was frightening, to say the least. She would not leave us alone despite being spoken to by the manager, and he had to come order her to stop taking photos or recording as well, even after he had already talked to her and the cashier told her to stop. I fear this interaction is going to push her into uncharted territory, and have no idea how she will react, what she will do, or what she is truly capable of...which is why the officer who took the Domestic Incident report suggested filing for a protective order, but didn't think her actions were to the point of being criminal. I was planning on going back to the store to ask for statements from the cashier and manager as well. The initial hearing is next week, and I'm not entirely sure what to expect, but want to be ready with appropriate evidence.

[adjusterjack]

Arti, I disagree with Mercy&Grace. There are people that are so batshit crazy, and dangerous, that they never stop the onslaught until they do something so egregious that it gets them shot in self defense.

I do agree that calling the police every time your mother stalks you and assaults you is a good idea. The more you get this on record the better your chances of one day having her arrested and prosecuted.

Please study NY's stalking laws thoroughly and carefully. They are Sections 120.45 through 120.60 of the NY Penal Code:

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-yor...h/article-120/

If you have to have a hearing on the protective order, make sure you describe her behavior in terms of the statutes and bring others to court who have direct knowledge of her actions.

Make no mistake. She IS committing crimes. Never take legal advice from cops.

[llworking]

Arti, I disagree with Mercy&Grace. There are people that are so batshit crazy, and dangerous, that they never stop the onslaught until they do something so egregious that it gets them shot in self defense.

I do agree that calling the police every time your mother stalks you and assaults you is a good idea. The more you get this on record the better your chances of one day having her arrested and prosecuted.

Please study NY's stalking laws thoroughly and carefully. They are Sections 120.45 through 120.60 of the NY Penal Code:

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-yor...h/article-120/

If you have to have a hearing on the protective order, make sure you describe her behavior in terms of the statutes and bring others to court who have direct knowledge of her actions.

Make no mistake. She IS committing crimes. Never take legal advice from cops.

I also disagree with MercyGrace. I do think that it is appropriate that you have filed for a restraining order. Her public behavior was bad enough to show potential danger. The fact that the manager had to shoo her off twice, and then she acted up in the parking lot a third time is justification enough for a protective order.

[Arti]

Thank you so much for the link and information. I have looked it over, and believe she has violated 120.45, both through her social media, and also this store incident as she was repeatedly told to leave us alone and not talk to us. Noted on legal advice from cops. I have asked several times during the well-checks on if there was anything we could do about her behavior, and they told me no- that she had freedom of speech and could post what she wanted. The only way for us to move against her was if we could prove those posts had hurt us or caused loss of employment, which we can't as we have remained employed and also run our own online business where someone wouldn't be able to search our names. Up to this point, we have felt there was nothing we could do legally to protect ourselves.

She's very manipulative and intelligent, and knows not to come at us herself. She has abused local resources and agencies to investigate us, mostly done 'anonymously'. I witnessed these exact intimidation tactics while I was still living with her many times over, and when the relationship was breaking down, she threatened me with it. However, this is the first time she has messed up and done something herself in public. I have documented, kept emails, and taken screenshots of particularly bad behaviors. I hope having these printed will show the judge who she really is, her pattern of behavior, and why I am afraid she may escalate violence against us.

I was hoping to avoid taking my daughter to court, but she is 18 and was a primary witness. Would having her make a written statement work for the initial hearing? Is it acceptable to ask for written statements from the cashier and manager to bring as well? The cop didn't offer to go talk to them, and decided not to go talk to my mother as he didn't want to incite her anymore. Starting to feel like he may have dropped the ball on it.

I also disagree with MercyGrace. I do think that it is appropriate that you have filed for a restraining order. Her public behavior was bad enough to show potential danger. The fact that the manager had to shoo her off twice, and then she acted up in the parking lot a third time is justification enough for a protective order.

Thank you for confirming. I certainly feel threatened and that something should be in place to protect us from this happening again, or worse.

[adjusterjack]

I was hoping to avoid taking my daughter to court, but she is 18 and was a primary witness. Would having her make a written statement work for the initial hearing? Is it acceptable to ask for written statements from the cashier and manager to bring as well?

Sorry, written statements aren't going to work. Every person who is accused of wrongdoing (criminal or civil) has a fundamental right to face there accuser in court and question the accuser's testimony. A written statement is easily ruled inadmissible if the writer is not there to testify.

Your daughter will have to testify in court as to what she knows about your mother's behavior. Same for the people at the store and anybody else that has been a witness to your mother's behavior.

[llworking]

Thank you so much for the link and information. I have looked it over, and believe she has violated 120.45, both through her social media, and also this store incident as she was repeatedly told to leave us alone and not talk to us. Noted on legal advice from cops. I have asked several times during the well-checks on if there was anything we could do about her behavior, and they told me no- that she had freedom of speech and could post what she wanted. The only way for us to move against her was if we could prove those posts had hurt us or caused loss of employment, which we can't as we have remained employed and also run our own online business where someone wouldn't be able to search our names. Up to this point, we have felt there was nothing we could do legally to protect ourselves.

She's very manipulative and intelligent, and knows not to come at us herself. She has abused local resources and agencies to investigate us, mostly done 'anonymously'. I witnessed these exact intimidation tactics while I was still living with her many times over, and when the relationship was breaking down, she threatened me with it. However, this is the first time she has messed up and done something herself in public. I have documented, kept emails, and taken screenshots of particularly bad behaviors. I hope having these printed will show the judge who she really is, her pattern of behavior, and why I am afraid she may escalate violence against us.

I was hoping to avoid taking my daughter to court, but she is 18 and was a primary witness. Would having her make a written statement work for the initial hearing? Is it acceptable to ask for written statements from the cashier and manager to bring as well? The cop didn't offer to go talk to them, and decided not to go talk to my mother as he didn't want to incite her anymore. Starting to feel like he may have dropped the ball on it.



Thank you for confirming. I certainly feel threatened and that something should be in place to protect us from this happening again, or worse.

Your daughter is definitely going to have to be present, particularly if you are going to be including her on the restraining order.

[cbg]

Asking, not arguing.

Since the daughter is 18 and a legal adult, wouldn't she have to apply for a separate order on her own?