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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2019
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    3

    Default Does Disclosing That a Car Won't Pass Smog Allow Me to Sell It

    My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: CA
    My car won't pass smog. Can I sell it for parts only, if I disclose that it won't pass smog in writing, say it doesn't work and explain that it can't be registered until it is fixed and other consequences of not being registered such as parking on a public street until and does pass smog and the buyer acknowledges all of those points in writing?

    Or, and I think this is the case, any sale of a car that isn't a planned-non-operational-car is inherently illegal and the buyer even if he admits he knew all of these things, can come after me for a refund or the costs associated with its repair.


    Please confirm that my only option other than selling it to the State of CA for $1000, or towing it to a pick your parts place is to first register the car as non-operational with the CA DMV Then I can sell it to someone who fully understands PNO and who can put it on a trailer and take it somewhere it can be repaired. I am not eligable for CAP and $500 won't fix it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    16,795

    Default Re: Does Disclosing That a Car Won't Pass Smog Allow Me to Sell It

    I think this:

    Quote Quoting sfoalan
    View Post

    Or, and I think this is the case, any sale of a car that isn't a planned-non-operational-car is inherently illegal and the buyer even if he admits he knew all of these things, can come after me for a refund or the costs associated with its repair.
    California Vehicle Code section 24007(b)(1)

    Except as provided in Section 24007.5, no person shall sell, or offer or deliver for sale, to the ultimate purchaser, or to any subsequent purchaser a new or used motor vehicle, as those terms are defined in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 39010) of Part 1 of Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code, subject to Part 5 (commencing with Section 43000) of that Division 26 which is not in compliance with that part and the rules and regulations of the State Air Resources Board, unless the vehicle is sold to a dealer or sold for the purpose of being legally wrecked or dismantled.
    Emphasis mine. "Legally" wrecked or dismantled denotes, to me, that the person you sell it to would have to be a licensed wrecking yard or dismantler.

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...1.&lawCode=VEH

    I suppose you can roll the dice on getting your buyer to sign a waiver and accept the car as is, and hope that it doesn't come back to bite you.

    My advice: If you can get $1000 by selling it to the state, do it. I'm sure there are fools out there who would pay more, but they are few and far between, and usually end up here asking for advice. LOL. But anybody with half a brain wouldn't pay more than a few hundred for a POS that won't pass smog. I sure wouldn't.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Does Disclosing That a Car Won't Pass Smog Allow Me to Sell It

    Though I very much appreciate your reply adjusterjack, I'd like to make you aware that it is not a POS. This means I have much better options than selling it for a grand to the State of CA.

    The car is a 2009 Honda Odyssey with 148k in excellent condition inside and out except that it has a failed transmission. The bad tranny prevents a smog station from running the car on their dyno because it doesn't load the motor properly. So it fails smog just because of the bad tranny. The problem is that the cost to repair the tranny is high, $3k-$5k. I could go down that road, get it fixed and then sell it. However....

    Based on the what happened when my wife posted it on Craigslist not understanding that she couldn't legally sell it that way, there were many people who wanted to buy it for more than $4k with the failed tranny and failed smog and were perfectly ok with signing an AS-IS Bill of Sale that fully disclosed the issue. So I know for sure that it is worth more than 4 grand. And I know for sure now, thanks to your intial answer in the EL forum and your reply to me that I can't legally do that kind of sale without a lot of risk. A used Odyssey like mine in good shape with 148k miles will sell for $7k-$8k. So there's no doubt that I'd recover the cost of the repair. But it's equally sure I'll only get $4k plus if the repairs come in at $3k which is iffy. My surest way to get $4k+ is to sell it to a mechanic who can get the parts for less than I can and can do his own labor. Plus if I go that way I don't have to get into what happens if the replacement tranny fails. That's between the mechanic and the mechanic's buyer to work out.

    To sell it legally to a non-dealer, I have to convert the car to PNO before the sale. I have to disclose that, etc., to the buyer and file the usual papers wtih DMV. That will force the buyer to fix it before he can legally put it back on the road plus I don't have to worry if the repaired tranny fails. In any case it's not my problem after I sell it, file the transfer papers, etc. with DMV and see it depart on a trailer.

    This is also a fail safe approach. If I can't sell it as a PNO car, I can still get it fixed in at a reputable repair place, get a warranty on the repair, get it smogged and then sell it. I might not get my $4k+ but I'll get a lot more than I get from the State of CA or from a dealer in its current state. I might even be able to get $500 towards the repair.



    -sfoalan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    16,795

    Default Re: Does Disclosing That a Car Won't Pass Smog Allow Me to Sell It

    Not sure why you are here since you apparently have all the answers that you want to have.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Does Disclosing That a Car Won't Pass Smog Allow Me to Sell It

    adjusterjack, it was your post that kept me from doing a bad thing namely selling a car that had failed smog. So I thank you again for that. It also made me do more research on the topic. I thought I understood it, when I did the last post. But after even more research I saw that someone noted that that the PNO status could easily be reversed by the new owner and that since the vehicle would fail smog, could then come back against the seller to make it pass smog. That doesn't seem right at least if the seller had made the buyer sign a document separate from the Bill of Sale stating that he understood the core terms of the PNO and that it was a final sale, but there seem to be no way at all for the seller to escape the responsibility of smogging the car, if he sells the car privately. As you always said, the seller of the car, is always responsible for doing the smog no matter how what type of notice you give the buyer. There is no exemption for PNO.

    Like you been saying all along, if you want fo sell a car in California, get it to pass smog yourself, sell it to a dealer or sell it to State of California. Otherwise the buyer can come after you to pay for it to pass smog and there is absolutely no escaping that responsibility. You probably can part the car out, but that is probably a rabbit hole too. Thanks very much for you very valuable advice!


    sfoalan

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