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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
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    292

    Default Re: Street Cleaning Fine - Was Never Issued Given Ticket

    Quote Quoting jk
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    ...
    And your 467 link actually links to cvc 463


    the temporary statement referred to when a driver is actively discharging recieving passengers or meechandise. It is not speaking to all temporary stopping.[/B][/FONT][/COLOR]


    while I don’t mind being corrected, it would help if the claimed correction was correct, which yours doesn’t appear to be. If you actually have what you claim to have, try again.
    Yes, the text for my link "467" was meant to be "463". I'm sure everyone else was able to figure it out, but thanks anyway for pointing out that error.

    As for "temporarily" in section 463 referring to the unloading of passengers and merchandise, and not to the duration of the vehicle's "standing", you are correct, again. Give yourself a big pat on the back.

    However, "standing of the vehicle" itself implies permanence. See cvc 587 for comparison. Webster dictionary does not define "standing" as a noun in any sense that would be applicable here, but one if its meanings as an adjective is " remaining at the same level, degree, or amount for an indeterminate period." So if the sign said "no parking", rather than "no stopping", and the O/P stopped to make a phone call or for other similar action of short duration, and especially if the engine was running, then his car was not parked. If you think he was parked, I'd be very curious what situation you do see as being stopped, but not parked. Do you mean the only such situation is when loading or unloading?

    Another way to put it would be, if he wasn't pulled up long enough for the parking officer to write a citation, then he clearly was not parked.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,648

    Default Re: Street Cleaning Fine - Was Never Issued Given Ticket

    Quote Quoting zeljo
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    Yes, the text for my link "467" was meant to be "463". I'm sure everyone else was able to figure it out, but thanks anyway for pointing out that error.

    As for "temporarily" in section 463 referring to the unloading of passengers and merchandise, and not to the duration of the vehicle's "standing", you are correct, again. Give yourself a big pat on the back.

    However, "standing of the vehicle" itself implies permanence. See cvc 587 for comparison. Webster dictionary does not define "standing" as a noun in any sense that would be applicable here, but one if its meanings as an adjective is " remaining at the same level, degree, or amount for an indeterminate period." So if the sign said "no parking", rather than "no stopping", and the O/P stopped to make a phone call or for other similar action of short duration, and especially if the engine was running, then his car was not parked. If you think he was parked, I'd be very curious what situation you do see as being stopped, but not parked. Do you mean the only such situation is when loading or unloading?

    Another way to put it would be, if he wasn't pulled up long enough for the parking officer to write a citation, then he clearly was not parked.
    the code section clearly defines there is no difference between parking and standing. They make it clearer by stating it makes no difference whether the driver is in the car or not.

    587 is irrelevent because the section charged specifically refers to the definition in 463. That means 463 applies

    Webster’s is also irrelevant for the same reason. Ordinary definitions apply when there is not a specific definition provided. There is a specific definition provided.

    notice that section 463 defines parking by using the term standing.

    Park or parking” shall mean the standing of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or passengers.
    park or parking means the STANDING of a vehicle...otherwise than temporarily FOR THE PURPOSE OF AND WHILE ACTUALLY ENGAGED IN.....

    that means that is the only exception

    other than that, if you have stopped your vehicle in the parking lane, you are considered to be parking.


    you lose on the section 587 argument as well. They are defining the term stopping or stopped.

    VEHICLE CODE - VEH


    DIVISION 1. WORDS AND PHRASES DEFINED [100 - 681]

    ( Division 1 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

    587.

    “Stop or stopping” when prohibited shall mean any cessation of movement of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the direction of a police officer or official traffic control device or signal.







  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    292

    Default Re: Street Cleaning Fine - Was Never Issued Given Ticket

    I lose the argument, you win it . Sure, whatever. So, when you get a parking ticket for stopping for 5 min to make a phone call, you go right ahead and pay it, jk. While you're at giving gifts, buy me a beer. The O/P can make his own choice. I know what I would do... I like my money in my pocket.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,648

    Default Re: Street Cleaning Fine - Was Never Issued Given Ticket

    Nobody is stopping the op from trying to fight he ticket but to win you usually have to have a winning argument. So far neither op or you have posted anything to refute the validity of the ticket. Everything you have presented is wrong. You read the ordinance incorrectly. You ignore the fact the ordinance refers to a specific definition of a term yet you want to argue some made up defense that ignores the specific definition used.

    I dont get it.

    On a personal level I think the ticket is overkill. Here we have a person trying to comply with the law regarding cellphone use while driving. Their actions caused no issues with anybody yet they get a ticket.

    If the op can win on sympathy, That’s great but I don’t see a winning legal argument.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    292

    Default Re: Street Cleaning Fine - Was Never Issued Given Ticket

    Dude, you're such a blowhard. Your opinion does not matter squat. Only the judge's/arbitrator's does. And I'm quite certain not every one of those folks will think a parking ticket is warranted for a person who stopped for five minuted to make a phone call, never even turning off his engine. So shortly, in fact, that he was never handed the ticket. So it's clearly worth a shot to dispute it. I've disputed and defeated many traffic tickets - 6 of my last 8, to be specific. So O/P would be well advised to try it. Why you continue to insist he shut up and pay up, though he has zero to lose in this particular case, now that I don't get. But I don't care either. Now go ahead and bloviate some more.

    Besides, maybe the phone call was to a friend that was to join him for the ride, and he was standing for the purpose of loading that passenger. Who's to know?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,648

    Default Re: Street Cleaning Fine - Was Never Issued Given Ticket

    Quote Quoting zeljo
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    Dude, you're such a blowhard. Your opinion does not matter squat. Only the judge's/arbitrator's does. And I'm quite certain not every one of those folks will think a parking ticket is warranted for a person who stopped for five minuted to make a phone call, never even turning off his engine. So shortly, in fact, that he was never handed the ticket. So it's clearly worth a shot to dispute it. I've disputed and defeated many traffic tickets - 6 of my last 8, to be specific. So O/P would be well advised to try it. Why you continue to insist he shut up and pay up, though he has zero to lose in this particular case, now that I don't get. But I don't care either. Now go ahead and bloviate some more.

    Besides, maybe the phone call was to a friend that was to join him for the ride, and he was standing for the purpose of loading that passenger. Who's to know?
    ignorance of the law is not a defense. It doesn’t matter if the op turned off the engine. How long they were parked is also irrelevant so it doesn’t matter if YOU belive the ticket was warranted, the truth is, based on what the op presented, it was in fact valid.

    if the op was discharging or picking up a passenger, after I pointed out the definition of parking, I suspect they would have stated that is what they were doing. Did you read where the op stated that? Of course not. You just want to go on and on and make up “facts” and try to argue your incorrect position.



    I also said,,as is the obvious truth, that if the op wishes to attempt to challenge the ticket, they can do so. I went on to say I don’t see a legal basis for such a challenge though and I still don’t. Do you see an actual legal basis to challenge the ticket or are you simply full of hot air and have a problem with “the man” and think the man is keeping you down?

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