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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
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    2

    Default Turning Right on Red, VC 21461(A) Ticket

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    I was cited for VC 21461(a) @ Fullerton Rd. and Railroad St.. It is a 4 way intersection with railroad tracks before the intersection although one of the roads is closed for construction. There are traffic lights on both sides of the intersection. Before the tracks, there is a marked limited line with "Stop here on Red" and a traffic light next to it. I was driving home and I was making a right turn with no train approaching I complied with the sign and stopped at the marked line and once a yielded the right of way I proceeded to make a right turn. Once I made the turn an officer heading to the direction I just came from pulled over a car in front of me and signaled me to stop as well. The officer said I am not able to make right turns on red on that street.

    I pleaded Not Guilty and i have a trial soon. I would like to know if what I did was wrong or right and what I can present to the judge and or say to prove my innocence.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9966074,-117.9049018,3a,75y,17.35h,70.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_1aL08sMfa9YYIgIk6hElw!2e0!7i1 6384!8i8192

    I turned right and got pulled over on the street I turned right too.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,269

    Default Re: Turning Right on Red, VC 21461(A) Ticket

    Which sign or direction did he tell you that you failed to comply with?

    On the face of it, there appears to be no signage that states there is NO right turn on a red light, so I'm not entirely certain what sign or other traffic control device the officer is accusing you of ignoring.

    That said, I cannot say what the officer might say in court on the matter. You might consider a trial by written declaration and seek his notes as part of informal discovery and hope that might illuminate his argument at trial.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
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    2

    Default Re: Turning Right on Red, VC 21461(A) Ticket

    He just told me that I am not able to legally make a right turn on a red there. He then proceeded to write me a ticket and also said he didn't write down for passing a red light since I guess I would have broken that law too if there was a no turn on red sign there.

    Also how do I ask for a Trial by Written Declaration?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    2,670

    Default Re: Turning Right on Red, VC 21461(A) Ticket

    https://www.courts.ca.gov/34713.htm is where you can find info on TWD.


    He should have ticketed you for the stop on the tracks that you must have done before you turned. I think you have a pretty good case.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
    Posts
    476

    Default Re: Turning Right on Red, VC 21461(A) Ticket

    Quote Quoting Jta132
    View Post
    He just told me that I am not able to legally make a right turn on a red there. He then proceeded to write me a ticket and also said he didn't write down for passing a red light since I guess I would have broken that law too if there was a no turn on red sign there.

    Also how do I ask for a Trial by Written Declaration?
    First, If you have already been to your arraignment and pled Not Guilty, a Trial by Declaration is no longer available to you.

    Second, I see no regulatory sign at or before this intersection that you could have violated so I'm going to take a guess as to what I think actually happened based mainly on the officers statement. This intersection has several lights controlling it. You stated that you stopped at the line where the "Stop here on Red" sign is. My guess is that when that light was still red, you proceeded through it to the intersection, which has another light, where you made your right turn. Your comment that "he didn't write down for passing a red light" leads me to believe that you may have gone through that light when it was still red and crossed the tracks in order to get to the intersection to make your right turn. Am I close?

    My guess as to why the officer cited you for a VC 21461 violation was to cut you a break whereas this violation carries a $237 fine. You could have been cited for a VC 21453 violation, running a red light, which carries a $489 fine.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    266

    Default Re: Turning Right on Red, VC 21461(A) Ticket

    Quote Quoting Jim Kozlovich
    View Post
    This intersection has several lights controlling it. You stated that you stopped at the line where the "Stop here on Red" sign is. My guess is that when that light was still red, you proceeded through it to the intersection, which has another light, where you made your right turn.
    There is only one controlling light for cars on fullerton crossing raiload as per the link above. There is no "another light." People would have to stop on the railroad tracks to comply with that one AND the light before the railroad gate would, in that case, serve absolutely no purpose. Either the cop made a mistake, or the O/P didn't get his explanation.

    O/P: As already said, if you have already pled guilty, the time for TBD is gone. Not to worry, you can argue your case in trial. You should file an informal discovery request with the police to obtain the cop's notes from the reverse side of the citation. That should provide at least some clarity.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
    Posts
    476

    Default Re: Turning Right on Red, VC 21461(A) Ticket

    Quote Quoting zeljo
    View Post
    There is only one controlling light for cars on fullerton crossing raiload as per the link above. There is no "another light." People would have to stop on the railroad tracks to comply with that one AND the light before the railroad gate would, in that case, serve absolutely no purpose.
    There are 2 lights across Railroad St. (by the barricades) to control the Fullerton traffic at that intersection.
    https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9970...7i16384!8i8192
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

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