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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    12

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    It said mail the check to something something Country Club "Attn: Public Safety Administration". I don't think it's a government agency.
    How do I know if I reside in the confines of the residential association? I don't live there. I don't have HOA at the place I live now, I don't even own a house. What kind of trouble can they cause me? Can they send to collection agency if I don't pay?

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Citations in CA are standardized and they all look very similar as a matter of law.

    1.02.1.B does not match ANY state law, and it does not conform to any county or municipal code I have ever seen. Nor does it generate a hit to any local government code online.

    Who does it say you must pay a fine to? Does it give instructions as to what you have to do?

    This sounds like a homeowners association or security thing and not law enforcement. If you reside in the confines of the residential association this little thing could cause you problems if you do not take care of it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    20,594

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Quote Quoting highrollers
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    It said mail the check to something something Country Club "Attn: Public Safety Administration". I don't think it's a government agency.
    How do I know if I reside in the confines of the residential association? I don't live there. I don't have HOA at the place I live now, I don't even own a house. What kind of trouble can they cause me? Can they send to collection agency if I don't pay?
    Sounds like a civil thing to me. And you should know if you live inside the association's property. If you do, you may be required to pay pursuant to those covenants. If not, then I doubt there is anything they can really do ... aside from barring you entrance to the property in the future, perhaps.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Next time if I face situation like this again, should I refuse to give him my driver license? Can they call real cop and issue me a real citation?

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Sounds like a civil thing to me. And you should know if you live inside the association's property. If you do, you may be required to pay pursuant to those covenants. If not, then I doubt there is anything they can really do ... aside from barring you entrance to the property in the future, perhaps.

  4. #4
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Quote Quoting highrollers
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    Next time if I face situation like this again, should I refuse to give him my driver license? Can they call real cop and issue me a real citation?
    Maybe. Hard to say without knowing where this was. You are under no LEGAL obligation to provide identification to private security, but, that does not mean that there will not be consequences of some kind such as a detention for the "real" police, or a detention/arrest for trespassing or something else.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Quote Quoting highrollers
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    The citation says:
    Rule violation: 1.02.1.B, Speeding 35 mph.
    That section probably is based on something called “Model Penal Code” which appears in business law courses on college and university law school sites:

    Quote Quoting Model Penal Code § 1.02(1)(b)
    to subject to public control persons whose conduct indicates that they are disposed to commit crimes
    So probably they have adapted this standard language to their homeowner’s association rules in order to penalize residents and regular visitors for potentially unsafe conduct (and no doubt as well as to bring in more revenue to offset operating expenses).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
    Posts
    544

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    I would suggest that instead of just ignoring the so-called citation, you write a letter to the address on the citation letting them know that you wish to contest the citation and need to know what their process is for doing this. IF there is a process, which I doubt there is, I would bet that the citing officer does not know how to lay the requisite foundation for his prosecution and prove "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" that you were in fact speeding. This will put the ball back in their court.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    168

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    I would first ask them to verify that they have the authority to write speeding 'citations' to the general public...and what are the legal consequences if you ignored it?

    Only residents agreed in writing to abide by the HOA rules(CC&R's).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Quote Quoting Jim Kozlovich
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    I would suggest that instead of just ignoring the so-called citation, you write a letter to the address on the citation letting them know that you wish to contest the citation and need to know what their process is for doing this. IF there is a process, which I doubt there is, I would bet that the citing officer does not know how to lay the requisite foundation for his prosecution and prove "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" that you were in fact speeding. This will put the ball back in their court.
    Since any such appeal would be to an HOA board or someone else likely lacking in any legal training, there would be no real need for the security officer to set a legal foundation for diddly. Personally, I wouldn't waste time contesting such a thing unless I actually resided within the HOA's authority. And, having once lived in such a community, I would never do so again.

    If the OP is truly interested in contesting this, by all means, they should contact whatever number or address is on the notice they received and look into it. However, if they are not subject to the CCRs there would be no real way for the HOA to enforce any speed violation.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
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    3,666

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Maybe. Hard to say without knowing where this was. You are under no LEGAL obligation to provide identification to private security, but, that does not mean that there will not be consequences of some kind such as a detention for the "real" police, or a detention/arrest for trespassing or something else.
    I'll also add to this, if the security guard were to hold you for local law enforcement to arrive, the police officer can write you a ticket (most likely careless driving) and the security guard would sign it as the complainant. But then the security guard would have to take a day off from work, to show to court if you were to contest the ticket.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    20,594

    Default Re: Must I Pay Speeding Ticket Issued in Private Property

    Quote Quoting Who'sThatGuy
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    I'll also add to this, if the security guard were to hold you for local law enforcement to arrive, the police officer can write you a ticket (most likely careless driving) and the security guard would sign it as the complainant. But then the security guard would have to take a day off from work, to show to court if you were to contest the ticket.
    Largely correct. A detention in CA can be made if the detaining party intends to make a private person's arrest (PC 837) for the offense and turn them over to law enforcement.

    However, a violation of state law (presumably VC 22350) would still have to apply. No probable cause to believe a violation of state law occurred, no crime to have been detained for. If this area is private property and there is no ordinance that allows the enforcement of the CVC on the property, then no CVC cite could be issued. Even then, if the "highway" was not "publicly maintained", most the CVC would not apply. If this is a gated community with roads maintained by private funds, then it might have to be some local muni code.

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