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  1. #71
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    Default Re: Is 40% Too Much for a Law Firm to Charge

    Quote Quoting Chuck77
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    I wonder if you are aware that sometimes you speak concisely and other times in riddles.
    And what did you think was unclear in my last reply? You stated that:

    Quote Quoting Chuck77
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    I know very well what the IRS is interested in. It is you that wants to label injury compensation, the sale of a car and finding $20 on the ground as gross income, when the IRS does not. It is you that thinks you are not listing all your gross income on your taxes.
    My reply addressed that. But if you think it was a "riddle" I'll be more blunt. Your posts in this thread demonstrate that you don't know very well what the IRS is interested in. Even after I have explained it to you and quoted the actual law you seem to think that selling a car or finding money is not part of gross income and you say the IRS doesn't think those things are part of gross income either. You are wrong on both counts. They are part of gross income and the IRS does include those things in gross income. And I know that because (1) I'm a tax lawyer who has extensively studied the tax law over my decades of tax experience and (2) I worked for the IRS in several different positions and thus am very well aware of the positions the IRS takes.

    Hopefully that will be concise enough for you to understand.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Is 40% Too Much for a Law Firm to Charge

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    And what did you think was unclear in my last reply? You stated that:

    My reply addressed that. But if you think it was a "riddle" I'll be more blunt. Your posts in this thread demonstrate that you don't know very well what the IRS is interested in. Even after I have explained it to you and quoted the actual law you seem to think that selling a car or finding money is not part of gross income and you say the IRS doesn't think those things are part of gross income either. You are wrong on both counts. They are part of gross income and the IRS does include those things in gross income. And I know that because (1) I'm a tax lawyer who has extensively studied the tax law over my decades of tax experience and (2) I worked for the IRS in several different positions and thus am very well aware of the positions the IRS takes.

    Hopefully that will be concise enough for you to understand.
    There you go changing my words again. I did not say you were unclear, rather that you speak in riddles. An example: A good lawyer can argue either side of a legal subject. When he does this it is easy to confuse a layperson as to which side is correct. The layperson usually chooses the side that they believed before hearing the opposing explanations. Hence with a biased jury.

    As to how it pertains to what you are saying now, a good lawyer will infer things without actually saying it. They will lead a person to a concept without actually making a false statement. So, before I bust you at doing this I will give you the opportunity to explain in detail what the above highlighted statement means. Then explain what you hoped the readers would take away from it.

    As for you being an expert in IRS law, I commend you for that but it means little here because counsel on both sides of an issue are experts in law. Yet they both speak select and opposing truths and riddles in an effort to persuade the listener. IOW what a lawyer says must be highly scrutinized for this reason. No offense.

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Is 40% Too Much for a Law Firm to Charge

    Quote Quoting Chuck77
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    As for you being an expert in IRS law, I commend you for that but it means little here because counsel on both sides of an issue are experts in law. Yet they both speak select and opposing truths and riddles in an effort to persuade the listener. IOW what a lawyer says must be highly scrutinized for this reason. No offense.
    it may have little meaning to you but all those here not trying to start arguments but rather trying to address posters questions have a great respect for TM’s knowledge and input. You should as well as he is about the only one willing to waste (in my opinion) so much time attemtping to educate those such as yourself who do not wish to be educated.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Is 40% Too Much for a Law Firm to Charge

    Quote Quoting jk
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    it may have little meaning to you but all those here not trying to start arguments but rather trying to address posters questions have a great respect for TMís knowledge and input. You should as well as he is about the only one willing to waste (in my opinion) so much time attemtping to educate those such as yourself who do not wish to be educated.
    I have shown TM no disrespect and have learned a great deal from him. I even closed my post with "no offense" intended. Unlike you who has one of the sharpest tongues (disrespectful) here.

    I also have respect for lawyers who argue only side of the law. But as I stated, one side rarely expresses opinion and advice for both sides.

    Lawyers have a knack for inferring things that persuade a person without actually saying it. That is why I want a better explanation of the statement "the IRS does include those things in gross income." That statement is what I coin lying with the truth.

    Tell you what. If that statement makes sense to you, try explaining it in more than one sentence as it applies to this conversation.

    Always trying to rally your troops, aren't you?

    Just as I though, neither of you can explain it because it is flat out wrong!

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Is 40% Too Much for a Law Firm to Charge

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    Do you understand how much time, effort, and risk lawyers undertake in doing cases on contingent fee and what costs they incur?
    Yes. I still think 33% + is far too excessive.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Is 40% Too Much for a Law Firm to Charge

    Quote Quoting Guybrush
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    Yes. I still think 33% + is far too excessive.
    Then I submit that you actually are not familiar with the economics of law practice and the risks involved in contingent fee cases.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Is 40% Too Much for a Law Firm to Charge

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    Then I submit that you actually are not familiar with the economics of law practice and the risks involved in contingent fee cases.
    And I submit that you are unaware of the economics of the vast majority of humans in this country. phttttppppp!

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Is 40% Too Much for a Law Firm to Charge

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    Then I submit that you actually are not familiar with the economics of law practice and the risks involved in contingent fee cases.
    I understand the risks, but with the new tax laws the tax and the lawyer's contingent fees would take up nearly the entire award. Lets say that an award was 1 million dollars. That is 400k for the attorney (if its a 40% fee). Tax on the entire 1 million is likely another 40-45% between state and federal tax, leaving the original plaintiff only 150-200k of the original 1 million. Yes, the attorney will have to pay tax on it as well, but the attorney will still net more than the client, after tax. That is absurd.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Is 40% Too Much for a Law Firm to Charge

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    I understand the risks, but with the new tax laws the tax and the lawyer's contingent fees would take up nearly the entire award. Lets say that an award was 1 million dollars. That is 400k for the attorney (if its a 40% fee). Tax on the entire 1 million is likely another 40-45% between state and federal tax, leaving the original plaintiff only 150-200k of the original 1 million. Yes, the attorney will have to pay tax on it as well, but the attorney will still net more than the client, after tax. That is absurd.
    Do you also understand what punitive damages are vs. other type of awards?

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