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  1. #1

    Default Transfer of Property Between Co-Owners

    My question involves real estate located in the State of: Indiana

    My sisters and I have property in all three of our names. We want to transfer the property to just 2 of us as my older sister is in a nursing home on Medicaid and is having dementia issues. We also have her POA. Her POA states: " I, CJM, hereby nominate and appoint BWM, and PJD, and SJC, my co-attorneys-in-fact. if BWM cannot or is unwilling to act, then I appoint BHM to serve in his place as co-attorney-in-fact for me and in my name and stead to do each and every act, power or authority as provided specifically in IC Code, (here it lists a bunch of ICs), including General authority with respect to real property, etc.... "

    In March of 2017 her spouse (BWM) filed this POA with the county court and then executed a QCD with him acting as her POA and signed over their marital residence to himself alone. She never signed it nor did she know anything about it.
    He did it so he could qualify her for Medicaid.

    Because of her mental state and the fact that she is on Medicaid, we want to transfer the property the 3 of us hold in joint, with rights of survivorship to just the 2 of us with rights of survivorship

    1) Can I have a QCD prepared and transfer it as her spouse did on the marital property?
    2) Will I have to refile the POA or can they use the one that he filed back in 3/8/2017? We do not want to bother her to sign the QCD because she would not understand why we are doing it or what it is for. The other sister lives in the residence. My older sister's spouse (BWM) and son (BHM) believe that they will get her 1/3 of the property on her death. But we do not believe so as the QCD on that property says "quitclaims to CJM, PJD, and SJC as joint tenants with rights of survivorship" . BUT we do not want to have to fight it if anything happens to my sister. Her spose and son have also told us that Medicaid can claim 1/3 of this house to pay her bills. That is why they transferred the marital residence, so Medicaid could not touch.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Transfer of Property

    First off, the spouse is misguided. Medicaid doesn't work that way. In fact, the transfer he did of the marital asset could DISQUALIFY her rather than qualify her.

    Is there only the one POA? The nomination of "co-attorneys" typically means you all must sign together to act for the grantor (unless the POA provides some way of resolving disputes). My guess is that the QCD previous signed is meaningless.

    You should get all involved to a competent elder law attorney before you do something that at worst is illegal and most likely ill-advised that could possibly disqualify her for the services she needs.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Transfer of Property

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    First off, the spouse is misguided. Medicaid doesn't work that way. In fact, the transfer he did of the marital asset could DISQUALIFY her rather than qualify her.

    Is there only the one POA? The nomination of "co-attorneys" typically means you all must sign together to act for the grantor (unless the POA provides some way of resolving disputes). My guess is that the QCD previous signed is meaningless.

    You should get all involved to a competent elder law attorney before you do something that at worst is illegal and most likely ill-advised that could possibly disqualify her for the services she needs.
    I agree with this. I agree that the QCD previously signed is likely meaningless.

    However, for the sake are argument lets say that it was not. Lets say that it properly granted ownership of her 1/3 to her husband. Since you and your sister do not hold a POA for the husband, you would have no power to take that 1/3 away from him. So, you would definitely need to try to find another solution to the issue at hand. A consult with an attorney is appropriate.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Transfer of Property

    1. Supposedly an attorney gave him the advice to do that to get her on a Medicaid waiver and Medicaid IS paying for her nursing home care. I know that as tight as he is, he would never pay for her to be in a nursing home. While they were working with an attorney to do this, she was bed ridden and he would not allow her to have any home health in. So are you saying that this would never hold up in a court of law if she should choose to fight it?

    My other sister would go over every other day to bath her. She was able to get to bathroom but that was about it. Hubby would feed her if he thought of it. We tried to get her to report but she would not. She was too afraid of him. Her health is actually much better she is in the nursing home and is able to walk with a walker now. SO, that was a good thing. However, we think that it was shitty of him to transfer the property to his name without informing her. We tried to tell her what he did but she refuses to believe it even showing her the paperwork. BTW, at the same time he signed as her POA to transfer the marital residence to his name alone, he then turned around and filed paperwork that the residence would go to his son if spouse should die first. So, basically they have stripped her of everything. Residence, contents, cars, etc.

    2. No, we did not sign the QCD when he used his POA to transfer the marital residence to his name, and then to his son upon his death. So, technically, that is not valid since neither of the CO-Attorneys signed. She was trying to make it be that we all had to agree on the POA and her health care POA so that is why she insisted on the AND statement. But it appears that he ignored it and when ahead and did it anyway.

    3. As far as I can find, he did NOT transfer the property that the 3 sisters hold. That still states all 3 with rights of survivorship. However, what we are afraid of is that Medicaid will claim that 1/3 to pay her bills. That is why we would like to get her name off of the property.

    4. SO basically you are saying that we can NOT use that same POA that the spouse filed with the COurt when he transferred their marital residence to himself to transfer our sister joint property, as it was really illegal of him to do so?

    5. If we can get her to sign a QCD on the property we hold in joint (3sisters) would that be legal?

    Oh, one other thing, he set up a Trust fund that should he die first, her inheritance will go to this Trust fund and that trust fund will be administrated by their son. So he got around the Indiana law where spouse gets half by making it so the son will have to give her any money she would inherit. Like I said, he is money hungry and so afraid that she will give her money to help our other sister. This is another reason that he put her in the nursing home. SO instead of the $2000 she got on Social Security, she only get $50 a month on Medicaid. That way she has no money to help our other sister out.

    Like I said, he is a real class act and the son isn't much better since he was the one who paid the attorney to do all this.

    other question, she was really afraid to make the spouse the sole administrator of both her will, her POA and her HCPOA so she made all of us, spouse and 2 sister "CO's" on all of them.
    1) IF spouse should try to make any future decisions as to health care, can he do so without ALL of us consenting?

    2) Are the sisters legally allowed to speak to any of her health care providers and the nursing home regarding her care as we are also her HCPOA's or does she need another document to allow us to do so? I ask because the nursing home just recently added a medicine to her care and will not tell her or us what it is or why they added it. We think it was done at the request of either her spouse or her son.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Default Re: Transfer of Property

    ONE MORE TIME. You need to speak to a local attorney.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Transfer of Property

    I don't believe what he claims the attorney said to him. Giving away assets (rather than certain allowable spenddowns) is going to be disqualifying. I suspect what the spouse thinks he's doing is avoiding a medicaid lien on the jointly owned property. But medicaid is not so stupid.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Transfer of Property

    So how do you report Medicaid fraud?

    What about these questions?

    other question, she was really afraid to make the spouse the sole administrator of both her will, her POA and her HCPOA so she made all of us, spouse and 2 sister "CO's" on all of them.
    1) IF spouse should try to make any future decisions as to health care, can he do so without ALL of us consenting?

    2) Are the sisters legally allowed to speak to any of her health care providers and the nursing home regarding her care as we are also her HCPOA's or does she need another document to allow us to do so? I ask because the nursing home just recently added a medicine to her care and will not tell her or us what it is or why they added it. We think it was done at the request of either her spouse or her son.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    15,111

    Default Re: Transfer of Property

    Quote Quoting labsmom5
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    I ask because the nursing home just recently added a medicine to her care and will not tell her or us what it is or why they added it. We think it was done at the request of either her spouse or her son.
    Then you all go into the nursing home and specifically show then the documentation that makes all of you co POAs and insist that they keep you informed of any changes in your sister's care.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Transfer of Property

    So how do you report Medicaid fraud?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Transfer of Property


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