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  1. #1

    Default Calculation of a Total Loss Settlement

    My question involves insurance law for the state of: Arizona

    Accident loss occurred: 11/19/2018

    My daughter rear ended a pickup truck. The other driver indicated no damage to the company vehicle (No claim being submitted). Only a 1st name and telephone number's were exchanged at the accident. Daughter called the guy several days later and the driver indicated his company agreed no damage to their vehicle.

    Geico has accepted the claim. The adjuster indicated vehicle a total loss. $500.00 deductible. As usual Geico utilizes a 3rd party CCC One for their MVR's.

    I am not disputing Geico's current acquired Base Value or the deduction taken from any previous damage or deduction's for wear and tear.
    What I am disputing is the data CCC One is providing outdated by 3 months. May or may not affect the base value today.

    Comp. #1 September 1, 2018 - Unverifiable - No longer in dealership's inventory
    Comp. #2 September 22, 2018 - Unverifiable - The dealership is no longer in business.
    Comp. #3 November 25, 2018 - Verifiable - In dealer's current inventory.

    When the adjuster came to inspect my daughter's vehicle at our residence I told her the integrity and reliability of CCC One's data provides is usually outdated.

    So, on behalf of my daughter I am refusing to settle her claim based on being provided with outdated Comp. source data being used. Yes! I am breaking peanuts It's more on the principal Geico relies on using outdated data to come up with their MVR'S. This maybe an industry standard.

    I told the adjuster I would be happy to re-consider the offer to settle this claim with up to date Comp's. The adjuster indicated she would advise and speak with her supervisor regarding this matter . The adjuster called back and stating they were standing on the provided MVR and would not obtain another MVR. My guess her supervisor told her not to re-run another MVR based on an additional cost. I told the adjuster she can sit on the claim I'm not settling a claim based on outdated data. Naturally, the adjuster popped off with stating they'll proceed with the policy Appraisal clause. I told her I'm not disputing the obtained base value. Again, I'm breaking peanuts not willing to rely on old data. If CCC One is unable to obtain current Comp's then they should expand their search.

    Received another call from the adjuster today who spoke with my daughter since she's the owner. I interjected telling the adjuster the same information regarding settling the claim. She again said then we'll use the policy appraisal clause. Again, I told her I'm not disputing the value. I'm disputing the base value was derived from old data. The adjuster then stated then she will just close the claim.

    I appreciate the review for an opinion and the response being received.

    Thanks,
    DDSA

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,132

    Default Re: Total Loss Settlement

    If you aren't disputing the value why do you care how they are coming up with it? Am I missing something?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Total Loss Settlement

    PayrolGuy:

    So, hypothetically would data from 2015 be suitable enough for you to arrive at a Base Value? A current up to date value would be suitable for me. But from 3 months ago is is old data. Perhaps a vehicle's base market value could change up or down within 3 months.

    So, with speculation. If you went to a dealer to trade your vehicle today and the dealer offered you $$ as a trade in and 3 months from now you returned to the dealer and offers you a less $$ would you agree? Most people I know work with current numbers, not from yesterday, three days ago or a year ago.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,142

    Default Re: Total Loss Settlement

    So, if you think you can find more current prices, provide them.

    3 months? The used car market isn't quite that volatile.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,132

    Default Re: Total Loss Settlement

    Assuming this is not some investment level car there is virtually no chance it went up in value.

    But what I don't understand is you say you don't disagree with the value but are having a hissy over the date of the comps.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    17,041

    Default Re: Total Loss Settlement

    Quote Quoting DDSA
    View Post
    PayrolGuy:

    So, hypothetically would data from 2015 be suitable enough for you to arrive at a Base Value? A current up to date value would be suitable for me. But from 3 months ago is is old data. Perhaps a vehicle's base market value could change up or down within 3 months.
    Pardon my bluntness but you are being in idiot. First you are complaining that the figures are 3 months old and then you are comparing your situation to that of using figures from 2015.

    If anything, the ACV of your daughter's car depreciated since 3 months ago. In October the 2019s came out, making your daughter's car a year older and worth less than any figures used from September.

    You do, of course, have the option of disputing the settlement offer by using the Appraisal process as suggested by the adjuster. In case you haven't bothered reading your policy, here it is:

    APPRAISAL
    A. If we and you do not agree on the amount of
    loss, either may demand an appraisal of the
    loss. In this event, each party will select a
    competent and impartial appraiser. The two
    appraisers will select an umpire. The
    appraisers will state separately the actual cash
    value and the amount of loss. If they fail to
    agree, they will submit their differences to the
    umpire. A decision agreed to by any two will be
    binding. Each party will:
    1. Pay its chosen appraiser; and
    2. Bear the expenses of the appraisal and
    umpire equally.
    B. We do not waive any of our rights under this
    policy by agreeing to an appraisal.
    You will pay for your appraiser (they don't work for free) and for half the umpire's fee (he doesn't work for free either) and by the time you are done you will have spent more on the process than any potential increase in the ACV.

    Meantime, your daughter is without a car for the months that the process will take.

    My advice: Get off your high horse and settle the claim.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,132

    Default Re: Total Loss Settlement

    Oh and by the way I would be tickled to death if my normal car that had been totaled was valued based on 3-year-old numbers.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    1,524

    Default Re: Total Loss Settlement

    Quote Quoting DDSA
    View Post
    So, on behalf of my daughter I am refusing to settle her claim based on being provided with outdated Comp. source data being used.
    Ummm...how is this your decision and not hers? Is she a minor? Or are you saying you've advised her not to settle and she's going along with your advice?


    Quote Quoting DDSA
    View Post
    I am breaking peanuts
    Huh?

    If your daughter doesn't like the offer being made, she is free to make a counteroffer and back it up with relevant data.

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    If you aren't disputing the value why do you care how they are coming up with it? Am I missing something?
    Quote Quoting DDSA
    View Post
    PayrolGuy:

    So, hypothetically would data from 2015 be suitable enough for you to arrive at a Base Value? A current up to date value would be suitable for me. But from 3 months ago is is old data. Perhaps a vehicle's base market value could change up or down within 3 months.

    So, with speculation. If you went to a dealer to trade your vehicle today and the dealer offered you $$ as a trade in and 3 months from now you returned to the dealer and offers you a less $$ would you agree? Most people I know work with current numbers, not from yesterday, three days ago or a year ago.
    None of this answers the question that "PayrolGuy" asked: If you aren't (or your daughter isn't) disputing the value, why do you care how the insurer is coming up with it? Your rather absurd hypothetical is not an answer to that question.

    P.S. I agree with everything that "adjusterjack" wrote.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Total Loss Settlement

    I was just checking the CA law on a similar case and the CA law specifies a limit of 90 days for comparables being available in the market. If AZ law is similar (I don't know but you can find out), 3 months old comparables are perfectly acceptable and up to date. the only way you could challenge that evaluation is if you can prove your vehicle was in better conditions (for example, with recepts of aftermarket parts), or if you can show there are better comparables in the market than those chosen by the insurance.

    for example if they used cars with 50k miles more than yours, but you can show dealer ads for cars that are only 10k miles more, then you can argue yours provide better comparables. but if AZ is similar to CA, 90 days is not out of date. I am not sure what to think of the "dealer out of business" one if there's no proof, it looks a bit suspicious but the "unverifiable" from the dealer still in business should be verifiable as I imagine the dealer should have the info of what they sold it for, it was only 3 months?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Total Loss Settlement

    Revisiting this thread to ask a further question.

    So, If the adjuster's estimate to repair the vehicle is $3,993.79 which is less than the Market Value of $4,922.41 after the deductible, why would the vehicle be considered a total loss?

    Thanks again for the response

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