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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    Didn't the OP have to have a copy of their birth certificate to obtain a drivers license before ? Schools usually require a copy of each students birth certificate for enrollment They had to have had their social security number if they ever held a job. This cannot be the first time the birth certificate and social security card were requested and required.

  2. #12
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    Sep 2010
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    19,049

    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    Proof of citizenship is now required to get a REAL ID compliant license. That is why a birth certificate matters.
    I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. CITIZENSHIP is not required, only lawful presence abnd the DHS guidelines say a social security card (provided it's not one of the turkey ones that say not for emplyement) will work. The requirement is AS I STATED. A social security card plus something establishing California residence is ALL that is needed for Real ID.

  3. #13
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    I'm sorry, but that is incorrect. CITIZENSHIP is not required, only lawful presence
    I'll grant you that proof of lawful presence is the requirement, which can be met by proof of citizenship. As the OP is a citizen by birth, I focused on that.

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    The requirement is AS I STATED. A social security card plus something establishing California residence is ALL that is needed for Real ID.
    But you are wrong that those two things are all that is required for a REAL ID, which suggests to me you have not actually read the REAL ID regulations.

    States need to get proof of identity, proof of SSN (or verified non work status), proof of date of birth, proof citizenship or lawful presence, and proof of residence in the state. Some documents can help establish more than one of those things, e.g. a passport can provide proof of identity, proof citizenship, and proof of birth date.

    Proof of identity forms the core of the requirements, and to establish that, the state must require one of the following:

    (c) Identity. (1) To establish identity, the applicant must present at least one of the following source documents:
    (i) Valid, unexpired U.S. passport.
    (ii) Certified copy of a birth certificate filed with a State Office of Vital Statistics or equivalent agency in the individual's State of birth.
    (iii) Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA) issued by the U.S. Department of State, Form FS-240, DS-1350 or FS-545.
    (iv) Valid, unexpired Permanent Resident Card (Form I-551) issued by DHS or INS.
    (v) Unexpired employment authorization document (EAD) issued by DHS, Form I-766 or Form I-688B.
    (vi) Unexpired foreign passport with a valid, unexpired U.S. visa affixed accompanied by the approved I-94 form documenting the applicant's most recent admittance into the United States.
    (vii) Certificate of Naturalization issued by DHS, Form N-550 or Form N-570.
    (viii) Certificate of Citizenship, Form N-560 or Form N-561, issued by DHS.
    (ix) REAL ID driver's license or identification card issued in compliance with the standards established by this part.
    (x) Such other documents as DHS may designate by notice published in the Federal Register.

    6 C.F.R. § 37.11(c)(1).

    For someone such as the OP who was born in the U.S. but evidently does not have a REAL ID compliant license from another state, the only documents he or she is likely to have to prove identity from that list are the first two: a valid, unexpired U.S. passport or a certified copy of the birth certificate, which is why I focused on those two things. But you will note that a SSN card is NOT good for proof of identity. You do need something else. So your statement that the SSN and proof of residency is good enough fails just from the proof of identity requirement.

    Proof of date of birth also requires one of the documents listed in (c). 6 C.F.R. § 37.11(d). Thus the SS card does not help with this either.

    Proof of SSN can, of course, be met with a SS card, though a W-2, 1099, or paystub with the name and SSN of the individual will also work. 6 C.F.R. § 37.11(e).

    Proof of lawful presence may be established by the documents listed in (c) except for (v), (vi), and (ix). 6 CFR § 37.11(g)(1). Thus the SS card does not help with lawful presence.

    So the bottom line is that for most native born citizens who do not already have a REAL ID compliant license (like the OP), they are generally going to need (1) a passport and or certified copy of their birth certificate as they are unlikely to have any of the other items in (c), (2) their SS card and (3) proof of residence in the state to get a REAL ID compliant license. Just having (2) and (3), as you stated, is not enough. You need to have the items in (1) too.

    Now I happen to know this because I recently moved to a different state just last week I went into the DMV of my current state to get my license and had researched this prior to going in. My prior driver's license was not REAL ID compliant. So the license was only good for getting me out of the driver's written exam and driving exam. I still had to present my passport for proof of identity, proof of lawful presence, and proof of birth date, my SS card for proof of SSN, and then some documents for proof of my residency in state, exactly matching the DHS regulations for REAL ID.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,049

    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    No, I was correct. That there are OTHER acceptable proofs doesn't invalidate my statement. It certainly doesn't contradict your erroneous statement that an SS card isn't all CALIFORNIA requires for their REALID implementation.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    The documents California requires for a federal non-compliant ID card or driver's license are listed here.

    The documents California requires for a REAL ID card or driver's license are listed here.

  6. #16
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    No, I was correct. That there are OTHER acceptable proofs doesn't invalidate my statement.
    No, you are not correct. You said "A social security card plus something establishing California residence is ALL that is needed for Real ID." That is clearly wrong. I cited to you the regulations that tell you that you are wrong. More is indeed needed. See Mr. Knowitall's link to the CA REAL ID requirements. It also tells you that more is needed. In fact, it tells you that what is needed is what I said is needed. Just look at item number 1 on that link -- it's the same list of identity documents that I quoted from the federal regulations.

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    It certainly doesn't contradict your erroneous statement that an SS card isn't all CALIFORNIA requires for their REALID implementation.
    You are suggesting here that California can have REAL ID requirements that are LESS than the federal government requires. That is not correct. If the state does not at least get what the feds say they must get then the state may not issue a REAL ID compliant license. So my statement was correct, the SSA card and proof of residency are NOT all that California (or any other state) requires for a REAL ID compliant license. The simple fact is getting just those things will not meet the federal REAL ID requirements that I set out for you in my earlier reply. And again, Mr. K's link to what California itself says it requires backs that up.

    I can understand you don't wish to admit an error here, but if you still want to insist I'm wrong and your statement was correct, please provide the citation to the federal regulations and the California REAL ID requirements that backs it up. I've provided the law I'm relying upon, and you've not refuted that. Mr K. has provided a helpful like to what California itself requires (which, as I noted above, had to be at least what feds say is needed). You surely don't expect me to take your word over what the federal regulations and the state of California say is required just because you are flyingron, do you?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
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    16

    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    OP - how are you able to work legally without a SS card?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    3,033

    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    I don't think the OP ever said he doesn't have an SS card. And SS card isn't all that is required as has been repeated many times in this thread.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    7,297

    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
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    I don't think the OP ever said he doesn't have an SS card.
    Well, I grant you it's not real clear, but the OP did say:

    Quote Quoting scorpio51904
    View Post
    My issue is that the lady that gave birth to me had me at home & never took the time to register me much less apply for me to get a social security card.
    That suggests to me that the SS card (or rather lack of it) is an issue for the OP.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    3,033

    Default Re: No Birth Certificate No Social Security Expired California Drivers License

    His getting one later in life was an assumption on my part.

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