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  1. #1
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    Oct 2018
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    Angry Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    My question involves civil rights in the State of: Louisiana.

    A relative is an 18 yo freshman at a university in LA. prior to yesterday’s football game, she was at a tailgate party. At 3 pm she was posting pictures, all fine, having fun. By 4 she was wasted. She had littke prior experience with alcohol, and is under 100 lbs. we don’t know what she had to drink or who gave it to her. Suffice to say, Her new dorm “friends” ditched her and she was left to find her own way back to the dorm. Somehow she made it back to the dorm, where the RA got involved. She was upset about getting ditched, and very drunk. For reasons unknown, the RA called tho police, citing possible self harm.

    While the RA was with her, her father called her on FaceTime. He could tell she was upset. But could only see the ceiling. Apparently the RA was there, but refused to go on camera. Then the police show up. Ask her if she wants to hurt herself. “No”. Does she want to end her life “no”. Ask if she were to end her life, how would she do it. “I guess I would drown myself”. Apparently that’s enough to put her away on pychistric hold??!!! Then since she’s an adult, her parents are not entitled to any information, not even what hospital she’s been transferred to.

    She had a .18 blood alcohol level by the time she reached hospital. The medical staff claimed she was suicidal when she arrived and in 2 subsequent exams after she sobered up. She claims those 2 didn’t happen. The RA claims her father showed no concern about her intoxication, but made no attempt to let him know about the extent of the situation, also lied about who called whoWhen her mother went to her dorm room to get her clothes, the RA said she called the police because that’s what happened in her family.

    This kid had a little setback when her new uni friends proved to be anything but. She has a huge communitee of friends and family, and no history of depression. How does being drunk and sad and answering a hypothetical question warrant a 72 hour hold. And it’s not over yet. They’re talking about a 25 day hold.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    You have chosen not to share any facts; but if you are claiming to such people as the police, your doctor or counselor, or the psychiatric staff at a hospital that you are going to harm yourself, you should anticipate that they will assume that you are serious.

  3. #3
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    Oct 2018
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Filled it in now. Had trouble with the interface

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    If they are talking about extending the hold beyond the initial 72 hours, it is clear that she made comments that caused sufficient concern to warrant a petition for the lengthier hold. Indeed, she would not have been held for the initial 72 hours if she had sobered up and not made further comments indicating suicidal ideation in some way.

    It is not uncommon for the police to get involved when a student at a university is excessively inebriated and without care. Sometimes it can result in an arrest (if in a public place or other locale where it might be a crime to be so impaired), medical aid and transport to a hospital for possible alcohol poisoning or extreme inebriation, or even commitment on a mental health hold. What will ultimately occur will depend on what is said and presented to law enforcement and then the medical or psychological professionals.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  5. #5
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    Oct 2018
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    She was back in her dorm room. The RA projected her own familial angst into her and interpreted being upset as suicidal, and lied about the call with the father. She made no statements to self harm.

    Someone committed a crime in providing her the alcohol. Possibly even more if they spiked or drugged it. How else did she go from fine to wasted in under an hour?

    The hospital has dubious repute and lied about talking to her after she was sober. She’s not a liar. An entire communitee can back that up

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Quote Quoting Kandalahma
    View Post
    She was back in her dorm room. The RA projected her own familial angst into her and interpreted being upset as suicidal, and lied about the call with the father. She made no statements to self harm.
    Oh? You were present at the time? You heard what she told the RA? What she told the police? What she told the clinician?

    Someone committed a crime in providing her the alcohol. Possibly even more if they spiked or drugged it. How else did she go from fine to wasted in under an hour?
    I work at a major university and let me tell you that swift inebriation among 18 year old girls is not an uncommon occurrence - no drug spiking necessary. And good luck trying to investigate or pursue a possible providing case against parties unknown with inebriated witnesses who were old enough to make the call for themselves. Law enforcement lacks the resources for such matters, and most DAs are not going to pursue adults for making dumb alcohol decisions.

    The hospital has dubious repute and lied about talking to her after she was sober. She’s not a liar. An entire communitee can back that up
    The "hospital" would not have been the one making the decision, the law enforcement officer(s) she spoke with would have been the first parties to make the call, then the clinician that approved the application, then the mental health professionals and, finally, if she is committed for an additional 25 days, a court will be involved. For now, it's more likely she will be released when sober and upon establishment of a treatment plan if that is deemed necessary.

    Stomping your feet and complaining about what may or may not have happened is not helpful for your friend. Be there to support your friend when she returns, she may need it.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  7. #7
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    Oct 2018
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    I see you’re a big fan of authoritarianism. You’ve put all faith and authority in the RA, without knowing their history or qualifications. The RA has already made demonstrable lies, and stated she based her decision to call the police on her own family experience, not anything that was stated to her. She declined to speak to the father when she could have. And universities have done such a stellar job handling sexual assault on campus, which thankfully we didn’t get there in this.case

    Law enforcement took the RAs word and manipulated a very drunk person into saying something, after she said she didn’t want to hurt herself. They’re not qualified to make a mental evaluation, but took advantage of her respect for authority. They asked a hypothetical question, she gave a hypothetical answer. That was enough to doom Samantha Fox for years in Italy too. I thought we were better than that, but used it to send her to the hospital, that then transferred her to a behavioral unit.

    The hospital claimed to have made 2 exams that are now in dispute. They do have the financial interest, and a lousy reputation. Won’t be the first time health professionals lied, especially about female students. Happened to me and many others. How about the one who was committed for anorexia. The “professionals” all noted the standard psyche examination notes for anorexia, all the while she denied saying it. and said she had pain swallowing. Took over six months before it was determined she had a torn esophaguses My aunt couldn’t have children after a doctor scoffed at her pain. Until her ovaries burst. But let’s believe tge authorities making money off this.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Quote Quoting Kandalahma
    View Post
    I see you’re a big fan of authoritarianism. You’ve put all faith and authority in the RA, without knowing their history or qualifications. The RA has already made demonstrable lies, and stated she based her decision to call the police on her own family experience, not anything that was stated to her. She declined to speak to the father when she could have. And universities have done such a stellar job handling sexual assault on campus, which thankfully we didn’t get there in this.case
    Nope. I’m a fan of the rule of law. YOU are making a lot of suppositions about a situation you have no real knowledge of. You were not present and not a party to the conversations, so you are guessing about a process you are unfamiliar with. The RA is really not the issue here. It is the officers that made the initial call, and a clinician that supported their decision after they made the decision to take her into protective custody. Whether or not she spoke to her father was really of little consequence.

    Law enforcement took the RAs word and manipulated a very drunk person into saying something, after she said she didn’t want to hurt herself. They’re not qualified to make a mental evaluation, but took advantage of her respect for authority. They asked a hypothetical question, she gave a hypothetical answer. That was enough to doom Samantha Fox for years in Italy too. I thought we were better than that, but used it to send her to the hospital, that then transferred her to a behavioral unit.
    Once again I ask, were YOU present to witness all of this? The officers likely followed policy and procedure which is generally crafted through applicable state law. Had they NOT taken her into protective custody and she later killed herself, I suspect you’d be screaming that they failed to do their job to protect her. As it is, I suspect she made the relevant statements to support the hold and then later repeated them to the clinician at the hospital.

    The hospital claimed to have made 2 exams that are now in dispute. They do have the financial interest, and a lousy reputation. Won’t be the first time health professionals lied, especially about female students.
    Your friend is free to hire an attorney and contest the issue should she choose. Claiming malfeasance on the part of the hospital - by two clinicians - is likely a tall order. But, it’s her money to give it a try.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Are you also a college student? You speak a great deal in absolutes and with utter confidence in your knowledge despite a complete lack of actual information about how events transpired and what was said...unless you're the super drunk girl.

    If she was ordered to a 25 day hold at a psychiatric facility then there was more going on that you know about as the girl in question would've sobered up and had to say more than "I was drunk. I was really, really drunk" to get that approved by a court of law.

    If she had a .18 BAC then she was actually waaayyyy beyond just drunk.

    Amanda Knox was the young woman in Italy who was convicted of murder, not Samantha Fox. Samantha Fox was, what, an "artist"? That may be a bit kind, but certainly not Amanda Amanda Knox.

    IT always amuses me when people jump to authoritarianism when what is occurring is the rule of law. You may not like the law, you may not understand the law, processes or procedures but that doesn't equate to authoritarianism. If this were an authoritarian nation then there would be no question. Also, this site would not exist and would be meaningless as the law would be subject to the authority's whim.

    So, at the end of the day, you know very little about the situation unless you are the subject in question. If you aren't all you have is, like, a heavily edited version of events by someone sho doesn't have a full grasp of the rules and procedures that they may be subject to after being completely obliterated.

    Completely. Utterly. Obliterated.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  10. #10
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    Oct 2018
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Of course I wasn’t there, the statements were recorded and read to me over the phone. She wouldn’t kill herself, so that’s not a concern. She was just upset about getting ditched. Big difference between that and being suicidal. She probably did need to go to the hospital for the BAC, which somehow she drank enough in an hour (timeline est on Instagram and Facebook) to get that high, but she didn’t need the police to be called.

    And I’m horrible at remembering names, but I remember phone numbered pretty good��

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