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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    At a university, when medics are called the police are going to be called - particularly when possible alcohol poisoning is involved. It is a HUGE liability issue for the university. CLEARLY she made statements or took actions that indicated to a number of people that she was a danger to herself or others.

    And, let me tell you from personal experience, the line you just wrote, "She wouldn't kill herself ..." is one of those things that one hears often from the mouths of those who have been left behind. Not all those who are suicidal leave a clear trail. While you may very well be right, if she makes statements to all those professionals - or takes actions - indicating otherwise, they are legally bound to take action.

    When your friend is released, she can consult attorneys to see if there is any legal action to be had. Until then, as I mentioned, you can be there to support her.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
    Posts
    1,409

    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Quote Quoting Kandalahma
    View Post
    Of course I wasnít there, the statements were recorded and read to me over the phone. She wouldnít kill herself, so thatís not a concern. She was just upset about getting ditched. Big difference between that and being suicidal. She probably did need to go to the hospital for the BAC, which somehow she drank enough in an hour (timeline est on Instagram and Facebook) to get that high, but she didnít need the police to be called.

    And Iím horrible at remembering names, but I remember phone numbered pretty good��
    And who, exactly, are you that any doctor or LEO would share such confidential information with you? The hospital and doctors sure wouldn't and I can't think of any reason that a cop would, absent a court order and then it would be a written transcript, if on existed in the first place, which wouldn't be likely in this scenario.

    You are also mistaken about whether or not the police needed to be called. The RA needed to call the police because if your friend died and the RA knew about the obliteration then the RA could be liable. There is also the whole Minor in Possession issue, which requires contacting the police.

    So far you're batting 0.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    3,069

    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    I live in Louisiana. You have been given accurate information here.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Any presumption of self harm was conjecture by the RA, who also lied about a number of other things, which can be proved. she made no statements to self harm,, with the exception of answering the hypothetical question from an authority figure / police. Sheís a happy kid with a strong support system and plenty of options. Thereís a huge history on social media, and she wears her heart on her sleeve. Nothing is secret with her. Yes, she was upset, but not suicidal also under 100 lbs and no experience with alcohol. She was always too busy persuing her passions to party.

    Iíve known people who committed suicide. They either had a history of depression and / or communicated signs, or were in desperate personal / financial straits. None apply here.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    The police and the clinicians and medical professionals are NOT going to base their opinion solely upon the word of the RA. You admit you were not there and did not see or hear what transpired. Happy and options does not preclude statements of self harm. Many such statements are merely stupid and knee-jerk comments that result in nothing. Many, tragically, are not. And much can happen when a person is inebriated and in a depressed mood. As I have stated, she can hire an attorney later on if she so chooses.

    So, has she since been released from the hold? Or, has she been committed for the additional time?
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Shell be released tomorrow morning.

    And she’s persevered through a lot in her life. She’s not a quitter. Getting ditched because she got to drink is a minor thing to her. It was the RAs statement and her respect for authority that got her here. Having personal prior experience with medical professionals and their attitude toward college students, esp female ones, I’ll hold my own judgement on their objectivity. They tend to interpret events to suit their own agenda. In my case, they dismissed symptoms as me being a college student and not eating / sleeping right, without ever asking how I was eating or sleeping. I was eventually diagnosed with a chronic syndrome, after I graduated. Not just me, I overheard conversations in the uni clinic about another female student. So, yeah, I don’t hold them in high regard

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    20,374

    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Well, I could tell you stories of missed signs, happy people that ended it all, and a host of other tales of woe if you'd like. I have worked a great deal with the mentally ill over the years including time in a unit that dealt solely with mental health calls. I also buried a God son who took his own life; his friends, family, and even his therapist missed the signs. Oh, and I have also witnessed a hanging death of a college student who was not eating or sleeping, and stressed over mid-terms (and a number of attempts in the last three years). It happens. What you think you know can often be wrong. Thank God your friend is okay and can continue on with her studies. Hopefully she learns to avoid alcohol and focus, instead, on what's important. And, be thankful you have more time with her. Too many students are not as lucky as the two of you are.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    3,069

    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Due to the amount of alcohol she drank. She does not have a clear memory of what she and others said that night. It sounds like she might have more problems than you are aware of. Plus, your being untrained and emotionally involved prevents you from seeing an objective and clear picture.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,728

    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    Your friend needed a lawyer early on. Is .18 drunk? Yes and her lack of regular use of alcohol would make it moreso than a regular drinker. .18 will result in slurring speech, staggering and in some people, not really being able to walk. In her, with her inexperience, I would suspect a near inability to walk

    There is a poor comparison when one grabs the levels for dui. .02 being impaired innmost states and .08 being intoxicated. Some states have or had .10 as the level of intoxication but a general crack down on dui issues resulted in most if not all lowering that to .08.

    That is the level you are considered unable to safely drive at all. That doesn’t mean you a catatonic. Many people can have a bac or .08, or even .10 and have very little if any noticeable effects. The bac for driving is set so low because alcohol does start to affect your abiity to drive safely quite quickly.

    But with that being said, again I will state that due to her unfamiliarity with alcohol, it’s likely she was affected much more at that level than a seasoned drinker.

    Anyway, your story is not all that unusual. It does happen where anything said by the observed is misconstrued or exagerrated. I am quite familiar with a case that sounds quite similar to yours. The reactions of the medical community were an overreaction. The problem is that it is very diffficult to contest the medical attendees statements or claims.

    at this point since she’s being released there isn’t much to do other than I would suggest she speak with an attorney about this. Having something like this in your records can cause problems down the road.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    Default Re: Behavioral Hold Over Dubious Self Harm Statements

    It can often be a, "damned if you do, damned if you don't," situation. Take them in for an evaluation and you're criticized ... fail to take them in for an evaluation and they harm themselves, you were derelict and incompetent. As with child protection matters, the trend in mental health is to err on the side of caution. I'd rather someone be alive and mad at me than dead and to have to live with that guilt. Ergo, as far as most officers are concerned, if there is sufficient legal grounds for the detention, it's going to happen. After that, it's up to the mental health and medical professionals to make any further assessment. For someone to be held at a facility (medical or otherwise) they generally have to have met the criteria in the opinion of at least two sets of eyes: The officer's and the clinician's. Each has their own set of guidelines they must adhere to, and they are not necessarily the same. It is not uncommon that law enforcement will detain an individual only to have them released without a hold in an hour or two from a hospital. Why? because the clinician or other appropriate medical professional is satisfied they are no longer a danger to themselves or others, or, they have successfully articulated a treatment plan or other course of action that mollifies the evaluator. In either instance, the subject will hopefully be around long enough to get assistance if they need it, or to learn from whatever decision they made to get them into the situation in the first place.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

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