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  1. #21

    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting jk
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    I didn’t address the attachment, did I? I don’t recall typing anything addressing the matter. All I said it you are correct that you have a right to counsel

    so go hire counsel

    they won't let me have an attorney. They are blocking me from the legal profession and the offenses on these boards are a case in point.

    Here's the hearsay definition:

    RULE 801. Definitions
    The following definitions apply under this article:
    (A) Statement. A "statement" is (1) an oral or written assertion or (2) nonverbal
    conduct of a person, if it is intended by the person as an assertion.
    (B) Declarant. A "declarant" is a person who makes a statement.
    (C) Hearsay. "Hearsay" is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while
    testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted.



    I have the right to effective counsel. They are forcing me to pro se. Just because I'm pro se doesn't mean the court clerk gets to pilot my case when I say I want it done this way, and my way suggested was within the rules. The court staff need to tell the truth when answering all my questions they are allowed to answer. They don't have the right to lie to me because I'm pro se. And they don't have the right to work for the respondents and aid and abet the respondents in winning the case.

    My affidavits are not hearsay and are admissible. I wanted a lengthy type written document to be placed in the box on the court forms (i.e., see attached document for case summary). They refused to let me do this to undermine my case. That's a direct violation of my right to present evidence.

    The affidavits are admissible. You're guilty of the same offense the clerk is guilty off --trying to exclude my evidence by fraud in violation of my right to present evidence to prove my case. If it's my first hand account of things that happened that I witnessed then its admissible.

    Go take the can of bullshit your spilling and eat it.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    How did they stop you from having an attorney? If you go and hire one, she/he will simply file whatever on your behalf and show up in court with you.

    I also suspect that given your claim the reason for the order has continued for 16 years and you’re still alive and well, the courts saw no need to issue an order of protection prior to the full hearing

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
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    495

    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting theunrealthing
    View Post
    they won't let me have an attorney. They are blocking me from the legal profession and the offenses on these boards are a case in point.

    Here's the hearsay definition:

    RULE 801. Definitions
    The following definitions apply under this article:
    (A) Statement. A "statement" is (1) an oral or written assertion or (2) nonverbal
    conduct of a person, if it is intended by the person as an assertion.
    (B) Declarant. A "declarant" is a person who makes a statement.
    (C) Hearsay. "Hearsay" is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while
    testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted.



    I have the right to effective counsel. They are forcing me to pro se. Just because I'm pro se doesn't mean the court clerk gets to pilot my case when I say I want it done this way, and my way suggested was within the rules. The court staff need to tell the truth when answering all my questions they are allowed to answer. They don't have the right to lie to me because I'm pro se. And they don't have the right to work for the respondents and aid and abet the respondents in winning the case.

    My affidavits are not hearsay and are admissible. I wanted a lengthy type written document to be placed in the box on the court forms (i.e., see attached document for case summary). They refused to let me do this to undermine my case. That's a direct violation of my right to present evidence.

    The affidavits are admissible. You're guilty of the same offense the clerk is guilty off --trying to exclude my evidence by fraud in violation of my right to present evidence to prove my case. If it's my first hand account of things that happened that I witnessed then its admissible.

    Go take the can of bullshit your spilling and eat it.
    You realize nobody here is denying you of anything, right? Most people arenít even in your state and nobody was even aware of your case before you posted it. Blame your behavior for your problems. Court personnel arenít able to keep you from retaining counsel. If you walked into a court acting like you are here, then itís no wonder they are dismissive.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    3,153

    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    Why would any attorney want to represent you ? Your attitude is one of the problems. Perhaps you cannot help your attitude. I agree you need a psychiatrist ASAP..

  5. #25

    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    How did they stop you from having an attorney? If you go and hire one, she/he will simply file whatever on your behalf and show up in court with you.

    I also suspect that given your claim the reason for the order has continued for 16 years and you’re still alive and well, the courts saw no need to issue an order of protection prior to the full hearing
    Whatever that may be. I said -- and this is my RIGHT -- "these are the statements I want ruled one. these typed statements are my 'petition' or complaint. I want it attached to the court forms." That's me exercising my own counsel. She refused to respect my will and made some other document the crux of factual matter justifying the charges. She did not respect my right to control the fate of my case. She piloted the wheel for me instead against my resistence. I made it clear that the case was in teh large box I brought in and the extended typed and professional "complaint" looking document. She needed to say -- "okay you want the typed document as your case summary? then we merely attach that to the petition, or you go get that notarized over there."

    All I'm asking the staff for is matters of court administation and court process. This is not legal advice. They can't lie about matters of court administration. That's everyone's need to know. All pro se pleadings are to be liberally construed and court staff answer honestly about all matters of court process and adminstration, but advice cannot be given.

    Every court guideline suggests typed statements are preferred to handwritten. if handwritten statements are provided they always need to be legible. I had typed written statemetns. Somehow tho all the rules change for me, and sloppy handwritten statements were like WAY PREFERRED and they ran off with them and started blackmailing me with them. I kept saying no, no no, I want this to be the statement of facts ruled upon and served to the respondents. They refused to let me exercise this agency in violation of my right to effective counsel, then had the judge execute me based on the chicken scratch by denying my ex parte motion. The first statement of the chicken scratch document that was served to the judge also read "see attached documents w/ affidavit & summary" or something like that. The judge should have seen this statement then said, 'hmm I don't see any attached documents or affidavit or summary I should probably meet with the petitioner like he was told would happen rather than deny the claim on some chicken scratch.'

    The case needs to be thrown out and re-filed.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting theunrealthing
    View Post
    Whatever that may be. I said -- and this is my RIGHT -- "these are the statements I want ruled one. these typed statements are my 'petition' or complaint. I want it attached to the court forms." That's me exercising my own counsel. She refused to respect my will and made some other document the crux of factual matter justifying the charges. She did not respect my right to control the fate of my case. She piloted the wheel for me instead against my resistence. I made it clear that the case was in teh large box I brought in and the extended typed and professional "complaint" looking document. She needed to say -- "okay you want the typed document as your case summary? then we merely attach that to the petition, or you go get that notarized over there."

    All I'm asking the staff for is matters of court administation and court process. This is not legal advice. They can't lie about matters of court administration. That's everyone's need to know. All pro se pleadings are to be liberally construed and court staff answer honestly about all matters of court process and adminstration, but advice cannot be given.

    Every court guideline suggests typed statements are preferred to handwritten. if handwritten statements are provided they always need to be legible. I had typed written statemetns. Somehow tho all the rules change for me, and sloppy handwritten statements were like WAY PREFERRED and they ran off with them and started blackmailing me with them. I kept saying no, no no, I want this to be the statement of facts ruled upon and served to the respondents. They refused to let me exercise this agency in violation of my right to effective counsel, then had the judge execute me based on the chicken scratch by denying my ex parte motion. The first statement of the chicken scratch document that was served to the judge also read "see attached documents w/ affidavit & summary" or something like that. The judge should have seen this statement then said, 'hmm I don't see any attached documents or affidavit or summary I should probably meet with the petitioner like he was told would happen rather than deny the claim on some chicken scratch.'

    The case needs to be thrown out and re-filed.
    again, I didn’t address anything other than your right to hire an attorney.

    As to throwing the case out: not within the courts ability without reason. If you want to dismiss the case or withdraw your petition, that is your right. A judge is not going to dismiss this case unless somebody makes the motion to do so.

  7. #27
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting theunrealthing
    View Post
    The affidavits are admissible.
    They are not. If you try to get them admitted as evidence the opposing attorney will raise a hearsay objection and the court will sustain that objection. They are hearsay for the reason I explained earlier and not admissible for that reason. You don't have to like it, but that's the way the rule is. Simply repeating over and over that they are admissible is not going to suddenly make them admissible.

    Quote Quoting theunrealthing
    View Post
    If it's my first hand account of things that happened that I witnessed then its admissible.
    No, it's not. The rule, which you yourself cited after I did, tells you that. Did you actually read the rule? Any out of court statement that is offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted in the statement is defined as hearsay. Your affidavit is a statement that was made outside of court. You are offering that statement to persuade the court that that what you say in those statements is true, i.e. you are offering the statement to prove the matter asserted. So how is that not hearsay?

    Understand that the hearsay rule is not meant to keep you from getting your testimony before the court. Instead, it is meant to have you give your testimony in person on the stand so that the court can evaluate your testimony first hand and so the opposing side can cross examine you about your statements. The opposing side cannot cross examine a piece of paper. The hearsay rule is not about whether you are telling your story versus the story someone else told you. The hearsay rule is about getting witnesses to testify personally in court as to what they say they saw rather than bringing in a document or videotape of the statement. There are some exceptions to the hearsay rule that allow certain out of court statements to be admitted, but your affidavits of your own story about what happened does not fall within any exception here. So if you want the judge to consider your side of things, you need to testify in court about it. The judge will not consider the affidavits. They are not admissible evidence.

    You already have the full hearing set for November. So stop focusing on the affidavits. They were never going to help you because the judge wasn't going to read them and they certainly won't help you in the hearing. Instead, focus on preparing for what you will testify to at the hearing and on presenting any other admissible evidence you may have to support your case for the protection order. That is what will determine the outcome here: what happens in that hearing.

    You really ought to have an attorney. The court is not preventing you from getting one. Start calling some law offices and see if you can find an attorney to represent you. If cost is problem, see if legal aid will help you or if the state/local bar can refer you to an attorney who can help you pro bono. The court has no obligation to appoint an attorney at no cost for this. This is a civil proceeding and you do not have a right to a government paid lawyer for a civil matter.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    They are not. If you try to get them admitted as evidence the opposing attorney will raise a hearsay objection and the court will sustain that objection. They are hearsay for the reason I explained earlier and not admissible for that reason. You don't have to like it, but that's the way the rule is. Simply repeating over and over that they are admissible is not going to suddenly make them admissible.



    No, it's not. The rule, which you yourself cited after I did, tells you that. Did you actually read the rule? Any out of court statement that is offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted in the statement is defined as hearsay. Your affidavit is a statement that was made outside of court. You are offering that statement to persuade the court that that what you say in those statements is true, i.e. you are offering the statement to prove the matter asserted. So how is that not hearsay?

    Understand that the hearsay rule is not meant to keep you from getting your testimony before the court. Instead, it is meant to have you give your testimony in person on the stand so that the court can evaluate your testimony first hand and so the opposing side can cross examine you about your statements. The opposing side cannot cross examine a piece of paper. The hearsay rule is not about whether you are telling your story versus the story someone else told you. The hearsay rule is about getting witnesses to testify personally in court as to what they say they saw rather than bringing in a document or videotape of the statement. There are some exceptions to the hearsay rule that allow certain out of court statements to be admitted, but your affidavits of your own story about what happened does not fall within any exception here. So if you want the judge to consider your side of things, you need to testify in court about it. The judge will not consider the affidavits. They are not admissible evidence.

    You already have the full hearing set for November. So stop focusing on the affidavits. They were never going to help you because the judge wasn't going to read them and they certainly won't help you in the hearing. Instead, focus on preparing for what you will testify to at the hearing and on presenting any other admissible evidence you may have to support your case for the protection order. That is what will determine the outcome here: what happens in that hearing.

    You really ought to have an attorney. The court is not preventing you from getting one. Start calling some law offices and see if you can find an attorney to represent you. If cost is problem, see if legal aid will help you or if the state/local bar can refer you to an attorney who can help you pro bono. The court has no obligation to appoint an attorney at no cost for this. This is a civil proceeding and you do not have a right to a government paid lawyer for a civil matter.
    Can you read? You have to look at the definition of "declarant." It's a statement made by someone not at trial -- e.g., "bobby told me that sally did X, but I personally did not see sally do that myself."

    (B) Declarant. A "declarant" is a person who makes a statement.
    (C) Hearsay. "Hearsay" is a statement, other than one made by the declarant while
    testifying at the trial or hearing, offered in evidence to prove the truth of the matter asserted.




    Due Process was Breached here are the Ohio Court Rules:

    Yep -- the clerk lied through her teeth and breached due process. She refused to include attachments this is basic procedure in the process of filing motions. I was trying to follow the rules -- that is, 'hey look here are these attachments, they need to be included with teh complaint' . She refused, saying, "we might not want that 'public record'" Look at the court rules..


    8.1 CIVIL PLEADINGS AND MOTIONS DOCUMENT FILING REQUIREMENTS
    Any person who files a civil complaint with the Clerk shall, at the time of filing, provide the Clerk with an unbound
    copy of the case designation sheet, signed complaint and exhibits, or other attachments.

    Any person who files with the Clerk in a civil case an original pleading, motion or other document that is bound
    other than by a paper clip, binder clip, or three‐ring binder, shall, at the time of filing, provide the Clerk with an
    unbound copy of the signed pleading, motion or other filing.
    The purpose of this rule is to assure the accurate and efficient electronic imaging of documents filed with the
    Clerk.
    Passed by the Judges on September 18, 2013.
    Comments will be accepted until November 22, 2013.
    Effective 09/

    AND

    11.0 HEARING AND SUBMISSION OF MOTIONS
    (A) Motions, in general, shall be submitted and determined upon the motion papers. Oral arguments of
    motions may be permitted on application and proper showing.
    (B) The moving party shall serve and file with the motion a brief written statement of reasons in support of
    the motion
    and a list of citations of the authorities. If the motion requires consideration of facts not
    appearing of record, the movant shall serve and file copies of all affidavits, depositions, photographs or
    documentary evidence which the movant desires to submit in support of the motion.

    (C) Each party opposing the motion, except a motion for summary judgment, shall serve and file within
    seven (7) days thereafter, a brief written statement of reasons in opposition to the motion and a list of
    citations of the authorities which are relied upon. If the motion requires the consideration of facts not
    appearing of record, the respondent shall also serve and file copies of all affidavits, depositions,
    photographs or documentary evidence
    which the respondent desires to submit in opposition to the
    motion.


    n
    Attaching supporting documents to a petitioner is standard practice guys. You're lying through your teeth. And those attachments are ALSO PART OF THE COMPLAINT OR PETITION and form the basis of the case.

    And if the judge does not read the case then he's violating my rights. He needs to rule on the evidence presented. That's like saying I dont' want to hear the case and ruling in favor of the opposing party.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,590

    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    Just because it says you can attach evidence doesn't mean that you can ignore the other rules with respect to evidence.

    You will get nowhere either here or in court by asserting people are lying even if you believe them to be incorrect. I guarntee you use the word "Lie" in court when pointing out an error and you will get sanctioned quickly. You need to learn how to make your points without making derrogatory comments.

    The underlying case is not heard based on a motion no matter WHAT evidence you think you have. You can only present limited material in support of that motion. And no you can't just throw a lot of stuff at the judge with a "Motion to dismiss because I'm write and the other guy is wrong."

    As they say in the commercial, that's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

    You've had a noted attorney give you advice here. He's been very gracious to do that for free. You've used up that patience (and most everybody else's). You'll have to go pay for further assistance.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    495

    Default Re: Deprived Due Process at Protection Order Hearing

    OMG, you are right. Attorneys and people who have successfully gone through this process in your state are all morons and lying. What you are doing is clearly working SO well for you, so just keep doing that. Since you're so much smarter than everyone else.

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