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  1. #1
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    May 2018
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    Default Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    Which is the official story?

    What if his door could and cannot be "left ajar" without physically placing some object between the door and its casing to prevent it from fully closing?

    Wouldn't this mean that her already highly implausible accounting becomes even less plausible?

    His door could not and cannot be left ajar so that story is almost 100 percent certain to be a lie.

    If the latch had been disabled by placing some thin plastic in place to block the mechanism, will reasonable handling of that frail plastic key cause the door, loaded shut by a spring, to reveal it isn't latched without going beyond reasonable fumbling and manipulating of just the key?

    No, you have to put more force into it than the key will reliably transmit to moved the door from its held closed, but unlatched position.

    You can accept these things as fact, since it has been demonstrated and recorded made available for anyone curious to see for themselves.

    So how did she really get the door open?

    What if she had a master key or a key nefariously coded to open his door?

    What if he actually opened the door and was that close illuminated by the hallway lighting?

    Further, Mr. Jean's apartment facing the open and illuminated courtyard and with blinds fully opened, add in light from the hallway, simply isn't dark by any reasonably sighted person's standards.

    It is obvious she saw him well enough to rapidly determine the threat posing "silhouette" wasn't compliant, shoot with intent to kill the silhouette hitting center mass with one shot, missing a likely intended head-shot with another and allegedly administered CPR without ever turning on the lights!

    The question is; if it were so dark that she could not and failed to reasonably determine she was not at her apartment and after ignoring countless illuminated door number indicators on her way there, why did she stop shooting him without KNOWING her allegedly perceived threat had been neutralized and she was truly out of danger? He was after all, still alive. How could she ascertain her silhouette posed no further threat and had no weapons accessible?

    If Ms. Guyger lacks sufficient rods in her eyes, she likely shouldn't have been allowed to drive at night, much less carry a firearm between sunset and sunrise.

    It is unfortunate that night vision isn't measured and certified for driver's licenses. I'm curious how many everyday people could not pass vision requirements for a pilot's license, much less more rigorous testing which address low light vision.

    I'm going to say the number unable to pass a pilot's vision test is a big number and even larger for those that cannot pass the most rigorous military testing.

    However, her deviating far beneath the norm and having poor low light vision that suddenly and miraculously improves when the lead starts flying is just another of many highly incredulous suppositions stacked on so many more already stretching her zero credibility.

    The door wasn't left open or ajar and how did she get back in upon abandoning him to make her phone call from the hallway before response teams arrived?

    Did she deliberately and carefully leave her vest and backpack to prevent the door from closing or did she go back into the apartment after leaving him there? The answer to that is known.

    Do impartial, unbiased and legitimate panelists exist able to muster sympathy sufficient to not convict her for her actions solely attributable to her created situation?

    She needlessly and intentionally took a man's life, abandoned him to bleed out while talking on the phone, and gave an accounting (multiple accountings actually) requiring anyone believing this isn't a murder to completely and willfully divorce themselves from reason.

  2. #2
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    Jun 2006
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    Default Re: Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    This will be my only post in this thread.

    The OP would do well to look up libel laws.

  3. #3
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    Mar 2016
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    Default Re: Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    Ultimately no one is going to know until an investigation is complete - and hopefully it's thorough and not biased by the fact the alleged perpetrator is a cop. I find her story has a strong smell of bull... but we'll see.

  4. #4
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    Nov 2007
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    Northern California
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    832

    Default Re: Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    You can't leave a hotel room door open. They automatically close. That being said, I've walked by countless hotel room doors that are ajar because the occupant opened the door and locked the deadbolt or they closed the safety bar when the door was opening. Both would prevent the door from latching.

    Let the investigation run its course. Either the physical evidence will support her story or it will not. Remember, every aspect will be investigated and many people will be interviewed (by multiple jurisdictions).

  5. #5
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    Which is the official story?
    We don't have all the facts yet, as your own post illustrates with the abundance of questions asked. Thus it is premature (and potentially defamatory) to call her a "murderer". Until she has been actually convicted of murder she is not a murderer. She was clearly responsible for the death of another person. But the degree of responsibility has not yet been determined. It might be murder; it might be manslaughter, it might be something else. Until we have ALL the evidence available and a jury has rendered its verdict (or she enters a plea agreement), we will not know what degree of culpability she has. You appear to have already pre-judged the matter, determining her a murderer before all the evidence is in. I hope that the investigators do not operate that way — deciding what they think she ought to be charged with before evaluating all the evidence — as that may well lead to the wrong outcome.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    Yea exactly, or sometimes you can very carefully close it so it just barely rests on the locking mechanism without actually engaging. With all possibilities though it had to have been intentional, which for some reason seems odd to me.
    sometimes something as simple as a rug or door mat can prevent a door from latching. That wouldnít be an intentional, issue necessarily. Heck, for all anybody knows maybe the door regularly didnít latch and Jean didnít realize it. This isnt even speculation. It is merely making a statement of a possibility. The originator of this thread has speculated enough and claimed it to be factual for everybody. We really donít need anymore.

    As to not not being able to leave a door with a closer unlatched: many many doors will not latch if you intentionally donít allow them to and then let go. Door closers typicslly utilize momentum at some level to close a door completely. If you remove that momentum, especially if the latch is stiff, itís quite possible to leave just about any door unlatched. So did Jean intentionalally leave it unlatched? I donít have any idea. Why might he do so? Maybe a friend was coming over so he left the door unlatched for them. Again, I donít have his reason, if he did leave it unlatched. All Iím saying is there are possibilities one particular poster chooses to ignore and instead go on some rant about how this cop did all of this with intent. If he knows that, maybe heíll provide us all with the winning powerball or super lotto winning numbers for the next drawing.


    I doubt the op has too much to worry about concerning libel though. There are so many people already making the same statements, all without a shred of true evidence that op is likely to be hidden within the din. The scary part about all of this is that there reallynare people like the op that make up their minds about a situation all totally based on this wild speculation...and some of those people end up on juries. While the attorneys attempt to remove such people during voir dire, the truth is some of those prejudices people do make it onto juries.

  7. #7
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    May 2018
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    Default Re: Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dall...ng-botham-jean

    "Police said in a news release that Police Chief U. Renee Hall fired Guyger after an internal investigation found she had engaged in "adverse conduct" when she was charged with manslaughter".

    Prelude to a murder indictment?

    I'm saying M-1 for several reasons.

  8. #8
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    Jul 2010
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    7,670

    Default Re: Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    I don't know why I'm doing this because you're just gonna go loopy on us again but:

    There is no way in hell the DA is going to try for a murder charge. He has a much better chance at getting manslaughter through a grand jury and into a court room.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    Quote Quoting KK1968
    View Post
    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dall...ng-botham-jean

    "Police said in a news release that Police Chief U. Renee Hall fired Guyger after an internal investigation found she had engaged in "adverse conduct" when she was charged with manslaughter".

    Prelude to a murder indictment?

    I'm saying M-1 for several reasons.
    Maybe, maybe not. I suspect what they did find is that she lied in her official reports. It's OK for a private citizen to remain silent and perhaps to even lie, but it's incompatible with maintaining integrity as an officer.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Murderer Amber Guyger, Door Ajar or Did Her Victim Open It for Her

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    Interesting for sure. I am glad she is being punished.



    Not sure how to interpret this but I don't think it necessarily means a murder indictment.

    Does the grand jury get to choose which charge they want her to be tried for; murder, manslaughter or otherwise?

    The reality of how that works is the Grand Jury signs a True Bill for the charge the DAG wants and assertively and forcefully presents evidence sufficient to support probable cause. That is what a grand jury does, find probable cause and foreclose on having a preliminary hearing.

    In many political cases, DAG's have been known to provide smoke by going as far as sandbagging their presentment and/or have one stooge impaneled to vote no, can even be the DAG's foreman selected by hand from the presiding judge and from outside the jury pool. But one NO is all it takes for the headlines to deceptively read, "Elected Crook found NOT GUILTY by Grand Jury".

    That is complete hoss manure and when you see that OR 'cleared of all charges by a grand jury', know you are very likely looking at manure.

    What has been published is not an official verbatim statement from Chief Hall NOR the alleged email, so you are asking the right questions considering the Garrity warning she had to be given and I believe her hearing is public record.

    This means that they weren't going to ask questions that her answering or being silent would tip their hand as to what is up theire sleeve.

    An easy one to fire her for and NOT merely because she had been arrested, presumed innocent, would have been a simple question about the statement she gave DPD's Detective Arredondo vs that given to the Ranger who swore the affidavit for her arrest warrant.

    Her answer to that could have easily proven adverse conduct and provided cause to terminate that her union and a brace of federal attorneys would defer to and not bring action.

    Again, I don't believe they want to telegraph any information they have sufficient to proving motive beyond the presumption given by her concealment of material facts, beyond the conflicting statements.

    Several more search warrant were issued last week, 5 that I know of and they were somewhat revealing and indicative that they are looking for holes in her stories and likely motive and potentially means for another possible crime.


    The public record affidavits used to establish cause for those warrants haven't been published that I've seen. I'd say those affidavits would provide great insight as where and why they are probing much further than the pro-cop Ranger's rapid investigation.

    Agreed and most likely what happened.

    The Garrity warning gives a subject a right to silence without invoking the 5th. Any silence can have inference drawn from it for administrative purposes and I am pretty sure NOT for criminal proceedings. However, any answer provided can be used in criminal proceedings.

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. I suspect what they did find is that she lied in her official reports. It's OK for a private citizen to remain silent and perhaps to even lie, but it's incompatible with maintaining integrity as an officer.

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