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  1. #1
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    Nov 2007
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    Default Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    I got a ticket this morning for failing to stop at a stop sign. I went back to the street to survey the area and realized I completely did not see the stop sign. The stop sign at this particular intersection for some reason is mounted extremely high up, about 10 feet off the ground high up on a pole. Furthermore, the sign is partially obstructed by a near by tree. I truly did not mean to not stop at the sign, and honestly feel that this stop sign is placed outside of ones normal vision range. The sign is literally placed almost twice as high as a normal stop sign. Is there any type of stop sign height mounting requirements in California which could allow me to fight this citation?

  2. #2
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    Pictures or Google street view link?

  3. #3
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    Nov 2007
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    21

    Default Re: Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    I can take pictures when I drive by it again. The sign is about 4 feet taller than all other standard stop signs in the neighborhood. Driving into the sun, I had my sun visor down, and because of this, it was completely out of my vision range. If I went back to the intersection and took photos standing in the street from far back you could see the stop sign. However if I took photos from the drivers seat point of view, it would no question be out of sight. Is this completely my fault or do I have any type of argument here in court? I have a completely clean driving record and would never purposely run a stop sign.

  4. #4
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    That will depend on the sign. How about an address including city and state. That way we can take a look at it on Google Street View.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    18,340

    Default Re: Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    You don't have to wait to take photos for us, you can give us a link to the Google Maps street view and we can figure it from that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
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    10

    Default Re: Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    It would be better if you have an actual photograph with a tape measure showing the actual height of the sign so you could compare it to the requirements of the MUTCD.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    Quote Quoting EJay
    View Post
    The act is obviously there and you don't seem interested in challenging the prosecution to prove it but there was no intent and I think you can convince the court of this.
    Most trraffic offenses are general intent crimes, not specific.

    From CPOLS:

    Most crimes are "general intent" crimes. For them, the intent requirement is met if the accused merely intended to do the prohibited act, even if he did not intend to violate the law. (Hering (1999) 20 Cal.4th 440, 445; Sergent (1999) 19 Cal.4th 1206, 1215; Hood (1969) 1 Cal.3d 444, 456.)

    Example: When a motorist fails to stop for a stop sign, the law automatically presumes the necessary general intent . It makes no difference that the accused did not intentionally fail to stop, or even that he did know that he was required to stop.


    In addition to the sign, I suspect there was a white line delineating the limit line on the street and possibly even the word "STOP" written at that line as well.

    I'm not seeing a maximum sign pole height in the CA MUTCD, but, I did only a cursory search. Only if he can convince the court that it was unreasonable for him to have seen the stop sign might he get away with this, and absent some unusual circumstance, I don't think it's going to work. He is certainly free to try, but, since he does not seem to dispute he moved without stopping, he may not have any viable defense. Further, if he came to an almost complete stop, it might appear that he knew of the sign and had committed a so-called "rolling" or "California" stop rather than coming to a complete stop before the limit line or curbline as required.

    Further, he might also want to consider the effect of gambling on a trial might have on his chances of traffic school - if TS is important to him at all.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    98,846

    Default Re: Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    The MUTCD (Section 2A.18 Mounting Height) imposes minimum height requirements for stop signs, but does not impose a maximum sign mounting height. So no, there is not going to be anything in the MUTCD (federal or California) that can be presented to indicate that the sign was not compliant due to its mounting height.

    The question of whether or not the sign's height makes it unreasonably difficult to observe, or whether vegetation (a separate issue) on the roadway makes it understandable that an otherwise prudent driver would overlook the sign, are issues that would have to be judged based on the facts.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Northern California
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    832

    Default Re: Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    Also the size of the stop sign might be something to note. There are standard stop signs and what I call mega stop signs, almost double the size as regular stop signs. A stop sign mounted 10' (about with relying on the OPs visual estimation) could be a mega one.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    4,301

    Default Re: Stop Sign Height Mounting Requirements in California

    Well since the OP was asked for and never provided an address where he failed to stop or a picture I can't see why we are now on the second page of this thread.

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