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  1. #1
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    Default Speeding Ticket Posts

    Quote Quoting Lol_irl
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    You bring up a good point and that's why I was wondering if it being a rental mattered at all. I have no idea when the speedometer was calibrated, how can I be responsible for knowing the equipment in a rental is accurate? I wasn't going downhill, slight incline actually I believe.
    My point here is that the officer's speed measuring devices are calibrated and certified, whereas yours are not and more than likely will be off by a few MPH. In addition, the court recognizes the officer as an expert witness when it comes to visually estimating speed and convictiuons have been had on visual estimation alone. Your defense here is that you were speeding, but wish to quibble over the exact speed based on an uncalibrated speed measuring device operated by a person untrained in estimating or measuring speed, who does not know when or where his speed was actually measured. Consider whose testimony the court will consider more credible.

    Quote Quoting Lol_irl
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    I'm a little surprised that the time mistake holds no weight. I know it's nit-picky but not only for my selfish motivations I would think details like this should matter on any citation. I could provide proof I was not there at 1pm and should instantly be a "Get the paperwork right next time" situation for the officer.
    Real court is not like court on television dramas. If an i is not doted or a t is not crossed, the case is not dismissed with the apologies of the court, you are not sent home with a generous stipend to compensate you for your inconvenience, and the officer is not reprimanded, fired or sent to jail for his clerical error. This is real life and all the court is concered about is whether or not you committed the violation.

    As cdwjava mentioned, sufficient errors can be used to question the officer's credibility as a witnes (thoroughness, accuracy, attention to detail) but the errors have to be pretty egregious and numerous for you to succeed. There have been situations where a driver will point out a minor clerical error in court, thinking it will be a slam dunk in getting his ticket dismissed, only to have the judge turn to the officer and ask if he would like to seek the court's permission to amend the citation on the spot to reflect the correct information. The officer will say yes, the judge will mark the correction on the court's copy of the citation, advise the driver that his concerns have been addressed and ask him if he has any more issued to be considered.

    Realizing thet his Perry Mason moment has been blasted into oblivion, the driver is usually left with nothing else to say, or he just stands there and blusters, again saying nothing meaningful.

    I'm not trying to be snarky here, but the simple fact is you're not innocent, you just don't want to be guilty and are treating this like a game - follow certain procedures and you might get out of it. Will your ego really be that crushed and will the world come to an end if you man (or woman) up, take responsibility for what you did and pay the thcket or go to traffic school? Its not the end of the world. .

  2. #2
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    Default Re: California Speeding Violation - How Much Weight Does an Error on the Ticket Hold

    Quote Quoting L-1
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    I'm not trying to be snarky here, but the simple fact is you're not innocent, you just don't want to be guilty and are treating this like a game - follow certain procedures and you might get out of it. Will your ego really be that crushed and will the world come to an end if you man (or woman) up, take responsibility for what you did and pay the thcket or go to traffic school? Its not the end of the world. .
    Ok so I appreciate the response but while you mention not trying to be snarky, you are. It's funny how every thread in this forum eventually tips that way, it's like there's something toxic in the metaphorical air here. Regardless of my motives etc I thought this forum was for exploring all options of the law from an intelligent standpoint. What's wrong with me wanting to explore my options? I'm pretty sure any good attorney treats every case they receive as a "game" and tries to out-think his/her "opponent" and plan everything strategically. What's wrong with the layperson trying to do so as well? I've had tickets reduced to moving violations in the past simply by showing up in court, being honest and requesting it. I live out of state so I have to do a trial by written declaration, I only get one shot at it and cannot react as if I were appearing in person so I want it to be a well-thought shot.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: California Speeding Violation - How Much Weight Does an Error on the Ticket Hold

    Quote Quoting L-1
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    I'm not trying to be snarky here, but the simple fact is you're not innocent, you just don't want to be guilty and are treating this like a game - follow certain procedures and you might get out of it. Will your ego really be that crushed and will the world come to an end if you man (or woman) up, take responsibility for what you did and pay the thcket or go to traffic school? Its not the end of the world. .
    You may not be trying to be snarky, but you are uninformed. The OP IS innocent and carries that presumption until he is proving guilty. That's the whole basis of our judicial system.


    In CA the citation is, essentially, a charging instrument, not specifically evidence.
    I'm surprised you would say this as it doesn't make much sense. Evidence is what is presented to substantiate the charge... or in the case of a ticket, the charging instrument.



    It is true that the ticket can easily be amended by the officer. But only if he does so before arraignment and/or trial. So, if you were to keep your mouth shut, go to your arraignment, plead not guilty, then the charge against you will be that you were driving at excessive speed on a certain day and time. If you show up for court with evidence of an alibi (i.e. you were not at the place of the alleged violation at the time cited by the charges brought against you), you should have a viable defense.


    As an analogy, say you were charged with operating a business without a license. You show up for court and now you are being prosecuted for tax evasion. While the tax evasion charge may be legitimate, you are not there to defend yourself against tax evasion... you are there to defend yourself against operating a business without a license. In other words, you have been accused of violating a law at a place and a time. The prosecution must prove all the elements of that allegation to sustain a conviction. And those elements are simply that you were driving a car at that place and that time at an unlawful speed. If the prosecution can't prove one of the elements, he cannot get a conviction.


    Now, that is the legal answer. The reality answer is that the law is really just a suggestion in traffic court. Traffic court judges make rulings all the time that ignore the law. I'd say that while your defense is very valid legally, it likely has about a 10% - 20% chance of working. Traffic courts in CA are really just that bad.

    Quote Quoting Lol_irl
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    Ok so I appreciate the response but while you mention not trying to be snarky, you are. It's funny how every thread in this forum eventually tips that way, it's like there's something toxic in the metaphorical air here. Regardless of my motives etc I thought this forum was for exploring all options of the law from an intelligent standpoint. What's wrong with me wanting to explore my options? I'm pretty sure any good attorney treats every case they receive as a "game" and tries to out-think his/her "opponent" and plan everything strategically. What's wrong with the layperson trying to do so as well? I've had tickets reduced to moving violations in the past simply by showing up in court, being honest and requesting it. I live out of state so I have to do a trial by written declaration, I only get one shot at it and cannot react as if I were appearing in person so I want it to be a well-thought shot.
    You are correct about the toxic environment here. There are three types of people here: 1. those who come here looking for advice on any possible defense of a charge, 2. those interested in helping that person explore a defense, 3. those who get some kind of weird pleasure from telling everyone that they're guilty and they are bad people because they are seeking to evade responsibility.

    I just don't understand the motive behind the type 3's.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: California Speeding Violation - How Much Weight Does an Error on the Ticket Hold

    You are correct about the toxic environment here. There are three types of people here: 1. those who come here looking for advice on any possible defense of a charge, 2. those interested in helping that person explore a defense, 3. those who get some kind of weird pleasure from telling everyone that they're guilty and they are bad people because they are seeking to evade responsibility.
    Many of the OPs here come in, admit their guilt and then ask for assistance in their defense. While that's all well and good, often, there is not real defense open to them, at least, none that will do them much good, especially without an attorney which may cost them more than they are willing to pay, especially if their issue is a lack of funds. There are many who come in simply to be argumentative and some that insist that they are right in the face of the mountain of evidence that they are incorrect and argue, name call and get personal.

    Many of your so-called "type 3's" are rather jaded senior members who have little patience for being told that they don't understand simple issues, especially in areas that they specialize in. I've seen very few instances where someone has been told there are "bad people", especially in light of the vast number of posts. Sure, we can be snarky and we can act as a peanut gallery but this is a free forum and you get what you pay for, snark and all.

    The concept of "innocent until proven guilty" is a great concept and is the cornerstone of our legal system but, when the OP admits their guilt what do you expect us to say? At that point we give them the well considered advice of shut thy piehole and get an attorney. Again, many OPs here ARE guilty by their own admission, including this OP.

    Your reply, by the way is the worst sort of smarmy sanctimonious pap. You fit in beautifully among the us type 3's.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  5. #5
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    Default Re: California Speeding Violation - How Much Weight Does an Error on the Ticket Hold

    We really need a like button.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: California Speeding Violation - How Much Weight Does an Error on the Ticket Hold

    Quote Quoting Stumpjumper
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    You may not be trying to be snarky, but you are uninformed. The OP IS innocent and carries that presumption until he is proving guilty. That's the whole basis of our judicial system.
    Yeah, but the OP admitted guilt in their first post when they stated they set their cruise control for 75 MPH in a 65 MPH zone. I was speaking in terms of reality rather than the abstract.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: California Speeding Violation - How Much Weight Does an Error on the Ticket Hold

    Quote Quoting L-1
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    Yeah, but the OP admitted guilt in their first post when they stated they set their cruise control for 75 MPH in a 65 MPH zone. I was speaking in terms of reality rather than the abstract.
    We could argue about the abstract all day and we have a forum for that.

    Like you, I tend to go with the info that's presented and reality.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: California Speeding Violation - How Much Weight Does an Error on the Ticket Hold

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    We could argue about the abstract all day and we have a forum for that.

    Like you, I tend to go with the info that's presented and reality.
    Sometimes when these folks come here I just want to post this cartoon and leave it at that.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  9. #9
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    Default Re: California Speeding Violation - How Much Weight Does an Error on the Ticket Hold

    The OP's name, expanded is Laughing Out Loud In Real Life, by the way.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: California Speeding Violation - How Much Weight Does an Error on the Ticket Hold

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    I usually expect something along the lines of, "you're guilty therefore you have no defense".

    Hearing that is like nails on a chalk board. In fact that line, right there, is why I post here on ExpertLaw.
    Way to take something out of context. You are intentionally twisting what was said to support your point of view.

    The OP's often do come here and admit their guilt and when they decry their innocence based on some superficial nonsense, such as a minor clerical error, they are told that the error won't get them off the hook. There are, however, people here, like yourself, that have a passion for helping people with traffic tickets. Great! More power to you, but that doesn't make them less guilty.

    Perhaps the oft admitted guilt is why the rate of success for contesting traffic tickets is low.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

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