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  1. #11
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    Jan 2015
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    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    I am very sorry for this man and his family. And I am also sorry for those officers who had to make that decision, pretty much without any guidance from a responsible official, the sheriff being who he is and all. And no one wants to have to end up taking a life. It's not ever going to be something you can leave behind you easily.

    The telling thing was that, as the driver's wife said, "if he'd just gone on a little further, he'd have run out of gas." Yes, and if we're projecting outcomes, I'd bet that if he'd run out of gas and been forced to stop for that reason, he probably would've jumped out of the truck and run. But maybe, just maybe, they wouldn't have ended up shooting him. I think that sadly, he pretty much chose the outcome he got.

    The DA is a responsible person, and based on what he heard, he made the right decision. Can you sue somebody in public office for being offensive? For saying and doing ugly things that reveal them as an offensive jerk? Not really. And can you predict, from miles away, not knowing the situation, not knowing the details, simply from what you've observed and what you have learned on the job from watching people behave, exactly whether somebody is a danger or not? As I said, in this part of the world, you ASSUME, until everything else in the world tells you different, that EVERYBODY is armed. Someone who has already made the decision to let the police chase them for miles, ramming police cars, avoiding directions to stop, equals guess what? He's probably a danger, he's decided to let the cops kill him, and he might just want to take one or two of them with him. Sad, bad, but nothing to do with some of the other unjust shootings we've seen in other cities throughout the country lately.

  2. #12
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    Nov 2016
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    130

    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    Quote Quoting comment/ator
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    The telling thing was that, as the driver's wife said, "if he'd just gone on a little further, he'd have run out of gas."
    How does she know how much gas he had in the car? And how are the LEs supposed to know at the time they are giving chase? Sure, he's going to run out of gas eventually, but for all they know, he could have just filled up his tank, and been driving for another three hours.

    In other news....

    Why not just let him go? "well, he rammed police vehicles" Yeah - I get that. But that doesn't answer the Q. Why not just let him go, and pick him up later? I know the modus operandi is to stop the person, and maybe the LEs were going by the book - doing what they were trained to do. Maybe not - i don't know what the policy is here. But I still wonder if letting a person go in that situation is more often than not the better way to go.

  3. #13
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    20,594

    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    Let's say they "let him go" and he later rams someone else, shoots them, robs them, or does some other heinous or criminal act? This is a question law enforcement is asked all the time ... and when they let someone go, and they prey on more victims - even killing them - the police are not praised for their brave decision to "de-escalate", but chastised for not doing their job.

    The NON-police are great at second-guessing those that actually do the job.

  4. #14
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    May 2018
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    192

    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Let's say they "let him go" and he later rams someone else, shoots them, robs them, or does some other heinous or criminal act? This is a question law enforcement is asked all the time ... and when they let someone go, and they prey on more victims - even killing them - the police are not praised for their brave decision to "de-escalate", but chastised for not doing their job.

    The NON-police are great at second-guessing those that actually do the job.

    But he didn't and he wasn't going to either, they knew who he was and had it out for him.

    Guess what, had the cops let him go and it was later learned he was spun out smoking arm dope and drunker than cootie brown, our post-hot-coffee extremely far right facist courts would not have found LEO even 1% liable for any damages or loss of life he caused.

    So, just keep killing anyone you can possibly imagine how they may actually do injury or harm to imaginary victims.

    When you get tired of killing (Legally MURDERING) folk, maybe snag you some minority report halos and enjoy that much cleaner power trip.

    The people don't have to be so highly trained imperial praetorian thugs to have a valid opinion based on facts they see with their own eyes tempered with a bit of common sense.

    The all-too-common mindset you present is a huge part of the huge problem and the sad part of it is, you don't see it as a problem whatsoever and are fearful of nothing other than a lil public chastising which might hurt your wittle fweelin.

  5. #15
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    KK1968, your ignorant diatribe is not even worth responding to.

    Peace out.

  6. #16
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    May 2018
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    192

    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    Quote Quoting riffwraith
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    How does she know how much gas he had in the car? And how are the LEs supposed to know at the time they are giving chase? Sure, he's going to run out of gas eventually, but for all they know, he could have just filled up his tank, and been driving for another three hours.

    In other news....

    Why not just let him go? "well, he rammed police vehicles" Yeah - I get that. But that doesn't answer the Q. Why not just let him go, and pick him up later? I know the modus operandi is to stop the person, and maybe the LEs were going by the book - doing what they were trained to do. Maybe not - i don't know what the policy is here. But I still wonder if letting a person go in that situation is more often than not the better way to go.
    There is no way possible she could have even had an educated or qualified opinion as to how much gas he did or didn't have, which is absolutely relevant to his murder. Afterall, she had zero cop training so the lying hoor should keep her rope smoker shut and let those who have the esoteric and highly specialized murder training to do their jobs.

    If they said he rammed their vehicles, you can bet the farm he did and was trying to murder them all. I've never heard of a cop lying or making statements not abundantly colored with truth in my whole life. Not once, ever.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    KK1968, your ignorant diatribe is not even worth responding to.

    Peace out.
    Excellent we feel the same way about each other. Now run along and go train more how they must shoot to kill in response to any provocation, imagined or otherwise where a creative story can be reverse engineered to justify it. Hell, they don't even need training in how to spin the yarns since our courts have lowered the bar for justification of murder by cops years ago.

  7. #17
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    Nov 2016
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    130

    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Let's say they "let him go" and he later rams someone else, shoots them, robs them, or does some other heinous or criminal act?
    I hear you, but here's my take - if they have no reason to believe that he is going to harm someone else, should that mentality still apply?

    I get it - you don't know. But....

    If police are chasing after someone who just shot (at) someone, then you do not let them go. Then there is reason to believe that he is going to harm someone else. But if it's a traffic stop based solely on a suspended lic., and there are no suspected weapons, is there a real true reason to suspect that this person will ram someone else, shoot them, rob them, or do some other heinous or criminal act?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    1,142

    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    Quote: "if it's a traffic stop based solely on a suspended lic., and there are no suspected weapons....."

    Anyone here who does not suspect weapons with EVERY person they deal with is way stupid and way off base.

    This was supposed to be a traffic stop, based on a bad license plate, and as I have said repeatedly, the man was dragging a trailer full of furniture through the county, poorly loaded, dribbling household goods around the road, quite early in the morning. Don't know where you guys are from, but around here, doing that was likely going to get you stopped by the law if they see you. Running from them when they tried to pull you over, at basically OJ Bronco chase speed was going to get you pursued. There was no minority presence, everyone was of the same general description and most everyone knows everyone else in the counties in question.

    What the cops expected to find, when this person refused to stop for the traffic stop was just what they would've found, which was no drivers license, no insurance, an improperly tagged vehicle and illegal substances in the driver or the vehicle. They expected it out of who they thought they were pursuing, and they expected it out of any random stop they'd make where the person drives away like this. As I've said repeatedly, they also expected the person to be armed as most of the people here, both felon and non felon, legally and illegally, are.

    There have been several cases in our state where officers were killed by people trying to drive through roadblocks. Those would stay on your mind while trying to stop people on the road. In fact, they'd called ahead, and at least one other attempt had been made to pull this truck and trailer over after the first stop. All the driver had to do was stop. Why didn't he? We don't know. They certainly didn't know while it was all going on.

    Don't know where you're from, or what horn you are blowing, but this situation is not what you seem to believe, you do not have a good understanding of the case or a good argument here. Contrary to what you've assumed, this is not a world where the cops are out on the streets trying to kill everybody based on the sheriff's direction. And just because there are some real loudmouth blowhard jerks who occupy positions of power around here at the present time, that does not mean every single person who has to work under them, or who is forced to listen to them feels the same way or will be guided by their disgusting nonsense.

  9. #19
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    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    24,521

    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    I still want an answer to my question.

  10. #20
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    May 2018
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    192

    Default Re: The Sheriff Ordered the Shooting

    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    I still want an answer to my question.
    You got an answer, volumes of case law and holdings show LEO exercising such discretionary conduct and letting a subject go <or even not senselessly executing him> would have them blameless and without liability no matter what he did after they let him go or he had served his term.

    Look, nobody involved in literally calling the shots in the Shoupe thing or the other execution also linked in post 3 were remotely akin to Sheriff Taylor aka Andy Griffith. In fact, thanks to their guerilla warfare kill-or-be-killed training, they are all far removed from those common sense and reasonable values just as several who post regularly here are.

    Why? Because our courts condone it no matter what the people think or want.

    It is very simple.

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