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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    `
    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    "silver 9mm" is dubious ....
    they were responding to a 911 call of a man firing a gun into the air

    That's dubious?

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    how does firing a silver 9mm into the air get spun into him shooting his non-silver gun at somebody?
    It doesn't. The report was not that he fired a gun at somebody. Therefore, no spin here.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    HERE in this thread is exactly where the spin has manifested in a way so typical of most all police homicides.

    Your denial of no spin is unobjective and seeded in rationalizing.

    Let me make this very clear, the poor soul was doing something stupid and foolish and I've no idea why he was running with his not-silver-at-all piece.

    That doesn't mean a high capacity magazine should have been emptied into his back.

    And yes, for a 911 caller to be so specific (and wrong in this case apparently) about the color and caliber of an alleged shooter's ordinance, is peculiar and I'd like to hear that 911 call. Wouldn't you?

    If that report is untrue and no such call exists, I can assure you I've heard more than enough about this homicide.

    Are they still looking for the shooter with a silver gun?

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    Wow.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    ... his entire clip once he made the decision to begin shooting...
    Calling it a "clip" just makes you look like someone who knows nothing and shouldn't really be making any comments about situations like this.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    aren't you here beyond ad hominen over petty trivial nomenclature?

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    I don't know about Highwayman but I'm not. It is a pretty good way to tell when people are talking about when it comes to firearms.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    I have read your responses. I understand we are criticizing a split second decision. I do not understand how it is impossible to have shot less bullets but I am not going to debate this.

    The fact that his intent was to kill the man bothers me. The fact that the other police officer shot 3 shots at the man while he was already down and the threat was already eliminated also bothers me. I wish slightly more thought went into the incident. If this means the officers were at a slightly higher risk, so be it.
    The INTENT is to end the threat. The reality is, this often means killing someone.

    I am an Active Shooter response instructor. I spent a lot of time the last few years prior to my retirement speaking to public schools about the police response. I cautioned them that while the euphemisms utilized such language as "neutralize" and "secure" with regards to the shooter or incident, the reality was that we were responding to kill someone.

    In short, we are trained to shoot for center mass and to keep shooting until the threat is done and over. There is nothing nice, kind or PC about it. That's simply the facts of it. In the vide, most the shots occurred in a span of 2 seconds. That's TWO seconds. ALL the shooting appeared to have been done in less than four. Given input and reaction times of the brain and muscle response that is not at all surprising even if the suspect was falling or down. Also, understand that DOWN does NOT mean "out." A downed man with a gun can still kill. And, sorry Ejay, they don't pay the police to be suicidal. They are not paid enough to run the risk of losing their own life and the life of their comrades so that some armed suspect might survive over them. The bottom line is that the officer intends to go home at the end of his shift.

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    "silver 9mm" is dubious specificity from a 911 caller that does seem sketchy especially when the youngster had a black/blue handgun, seems like I saw it was a 92F

    how does firing a silver 9mm into the air get spun into him shooting his non-silver gun at somebody?

    I guess I'd like to hear the 911 calls, I guess I'd like to know if his gun had even been fired and if so, by him and a lot more..
    Whether the original call was true or not isn't the point. The OFFICERS were responding to a call of an armed subject who had been reported to have discharged a firearm. They made contact with a person matching the description, he was armed, and he ran. That's pretty much the definition of reasonableness.

    I like the idea of citizen review boards and the ceasing of false statements and misinfo almost every time leo kills somebody.
    This is two separate issues.

    First, there is no standard for a citizen's review board. No universal one, anyway. They vary in scope and responsibility all over the country and even from jurisdiction to jurisdiction within a state. The problem with them is that they are often made up of political activists with little or no training in the law or police work, and fail to comprehend the most basic precepts of officer safety and the use of force. I don't have a problem with oversight and review, but I DO have a problem with an officer who has otherwise failed to violate the law or policy being castigated by a political body beholden to a political constituency.

    Second, usually the ONLY voice in a LEO shooting is the one screaming for the officer's head. By law, most agencies cannot speak to a personnel matter such as a shooting. They can speak of caution and what might have happened, but releasing facts and details too soon can violate the law and the due process rights of the officers and others involved. Therefore, for quite some time only one voice is most often heard regarding the facts: the one with an axe to grind.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    Carl,
    I understand and respect that. It still bothers me. I hope one day we adopt or develop a policy in which the threat is eliminated without killing him.
    Maybe one day we'll have wonderful sci-fi stun guns. Until then, we have to utilize the tools we have in our possession. When facing an armed suspect apparently intent on using the weapon, we will shoot until the threat is over. An officer that does any less is a fool.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    Quote Quoting EJay
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    Carl,
    I understand and respect that. It still bothers me. I hope one day we adopt or develop a policy in which the threat is eliminated without killing him.
    This is a policy issue that can be adopted. It is a technology issue. Phasers with the ability to instantly knock someone out would be great and I'd bet that nobody would want it more than police. But even on Star Trek they had to set the Phaser to kill every once in a while.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Police Shooting in Minneapolis

    CA is debating a change in the law that will remove "reasonableness" replacing it with "necessary." This is predicted to have the end result of allowing for officers who adhered to policy and the standard of the law to be prosecuted, sued, and terminated based solely upon a subjective analysis after the fact without the need to take into consideration what the officer knew or believed at the time. Arguably, one can make an argument that most any use of force was NOT "necessary" simply because there is almost always something else that COULD have been done, even if it might not have been viable, practical or successful. The text of the actual law leaves a great deal of wiggle room that is, quite frankly, terrifying.

    Yep, there will be fewer police shootings, but there will also be fewer contacts and arrests. But, then again, this is CA where we seek to decriminalize crime at every turn. Ab109, Prop 47, Prop 57, and now a bill that will effectively toss the felony murder rule and allow folks convicted under that rule out of prison.

    My wife retires in nearly 3 1/2 years and we're gone ... someplace that makes sense, I hope.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

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