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  1. #1
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    Default Stand Your Ground

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Florida

    https://www.newsweek.com/stand-your-...arking-1035850

    Something about confronting a man's wife with his kids in the car over something quite trival seems to be with the inherent risk that papa bear might not take too kindly to it.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    This video shows the entire incident start to finish.

    Start about 7:30 into the video where Drejka starts berating the driver of the car. At 9:30 the fatal shot is fired.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCResu_GmuM

    My vote: Justified.

    Drejka was viciously attacked suddenly and without provocation and thrown to the ground.

    Yes, I saw McGlockton take a step or two back when the gun came out.

    But what did Drejka see? Reeling from the attack he rolls over and sees a big black man looming over him moving forward to continue the attack. Did Drejka see the man take a step back and realize he was no longer at risk? I don't think so. I think, at that moment, Drejka was running on fear, adrenalin, and instinct and, in that split second, couldn't stop the shot.

    There are a lot of bleeding hearts on the internet complaining that SYG and a carry permit equals a license to kill. I say BS to that. If Drejka didn't have a gun, McGlockton would have beat the crap out of him. Look at the video. It's obvious that McGlockton was making another move toward Drejka before the gun came out.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    without sound to the video, it is hard to say if there was absence of provocation, and the premise that he was taking it upon himself to lecture or rebuke her for parking in a handicap slot, with others open, does lend itself to the presumption there may have been adequate provocation

    if he was talking offensive trash to his woman and kids, not many men would find that amusing and many would have done the same if not worse

    there was 4 seconds and bystanders and I've not heard any of their statements about what was being said to the woman and her kids

    notice whatever was being said caught the attention of all that were nearby and it was seemingly loud enough that one or two were standing in the door observing instead of going in

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    without sound to the video, it is hard to say if there was absence of provocation, and the premise that he was taking it upon himself to lecture or rebuke her for parking in a handicap slot, with others open, does lend itself to the presumption there may have been adequate provocation
    No, not a bit. Throughout his rant he was one to two feet from the car, never touched the car.

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    if he was talking offensive trash to his woman and kids, not many men would find that amusing and many would have done the same if not worse
    You believe violence is an appropriate response to talk? It isn't.

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    there was 4 seconds and bystanders and I've not heard any of their statements about what was being said to the woman and her kids. notice whatever was being said caught the attention of all that were nearby and it was seemingly loud enough that one or two were standing in the door observing instead of going in
    Doesn't matter what was "said" or how it was "said." McGlockton could have handled it in a variety of non-violent ways.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    notice whatever was being said caught the attention of all that were nearby and it was seemingly loud enough that one or two were standing in the door observing instead of going in
    And we don't know if Drejka was the one yelling or if the lady in the car was the one doing the yelling.
    I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.......

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Being intimately familiar with Florida's "stand your ground" statute and procedure, I think there is enough here to charge the crime and let a hearing decide if it's a SYG situation. I anticipate the state attorney will see it the same way even though the police did not make an arrest. Ultimately it is the state attorney's call whether to bring charges or not. I believe the state can show that SYG does not apply. Then it would be up to a jury. While I believe there is enough evidence that would allow a reasonable jury to convict, I don't think a jury will do so. I don't think you'll get six jurors all of whom will agree to guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. But it's a jury that should make that call, I believe.

    The reason I don't think SYG immunity will apply is because the standard is not what the shooter felt or saw, but whether a reasonable person would have believed it necessary to use deadly force. The guy on the ground may or may not have been seeing the thing clearly, but an objective reasonable person would not think it necessary to use deadly force against force that was already completed and where no further force was threatened.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting asa_jim
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    The reason I don't think SYG immunity will apply is because the standard is not what the shooter felt or saw, but whether a reasonable person would have believed it necessary to use deadly force. The guy on the ground may or may not have been seeing the thing clearly, but an objective reasonable person would not think it necessary to use deadly force against force that was already completed and where no further force was threatened.
    No, that's not the standard, nor should it be.

    The standard is specified in the statute:

    "A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be."

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/.../0776.012.html

    Your imaginary objective reasonable person who would not think it necessary to use deadly force against force that was already completed and where no further force was threatened has absolutely no clue as to what it was like to be on the ground with an attacker looming over him/her and has no business being on a jury.

    Now if you could get 6 or 12 people on the jury who have experienced being suddenly attacked and thrown to the ground while their attacker loomed over them, I would go along with that.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    I think Jim may be right. It was 4.5 seconds after he hit the ground that he fired his handgun. McGlockton was just standing there after he completed his forceful push. Drejka was the one who started the altercation with McGlocktons girlfriend.

    In no way an I sticking up for McGlocktons side, but I'm looking through the same window as Jim.

    If the AG doesn't file charges, Drejka better count his blessings...
    I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.......

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    No, that's not the standard, nor should it be.

    The standard is specified in the statute:

    "A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be."
    This instance seems to be one where the shooter can indeed conduct himself in a manner certain to provoke a reasonable person by starting the altercation and then claim he was in fear once the train of consequences began rolling.

    Any reasonable person should expect to get decked if they took it upon themself to play parking police with a female with kids if her man happened to walk upon it taking place.

    That isn't something I go around doing and would never dream of such conduct.

    I believe that makes me reasonable and those who think otherwise, quite unreasonable.

    The SYG language/holdings that allows a shooter to instigate and provoke another who responds by giving them a reason to fear so the instigator/aggressor can then legally kill them, goes against all maxims of law.

    Drejka should have called the police and let them handle the woman's heinous parking act.

    I do know a guy that lost his carry permit (and had to pay five figures in fines) for carrying himself like law enforcement and acting much like Drejka is shown to be acting in the video.

    However, he wasn't loud, crude, insulting in his simple request that a lady move out of a loading zone at the airport terminal as her loitering there clearly violated all the posted instructions.

    He was lawfully carrying his gun on his person and even a carry permit identifying badge that resembled a sheriff's badge we used as kids when playing cowboys and indians.

    My sympathy level for his loss, about zero and I told him carrying a gun shouldn't change him as a person.

    It didn't make him a cop and the badge was well over the top.

    another interesting thing about people is to note how much more polite and civil EVERYONE is, respectful of all others even, when they are in a setting where it is known everyone is armed

    Kennesaw Georgia several years ago had me thinking that was the most hospitable and polite place I'd ever visited.... much like going to a gun show or other similar events.

    by the way...... what's up with the IDIOT branding at the top of this thread?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    This instance seems to be one where the shooter can indeed conduct himself in a manner certain to provoke a reasonable person by starting the altercation and then claim he was in fear once the train of consequences began rolling.
    Agree
    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    Any reasonable person should expect to get decked if they took it upon themself to play parking police with a female with kids if her man happened to walk upon it taking place.
    I can't agree with you on this one. A reasonable person would have walked over to support his family, and ask questions like "what is going on?".

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    That isn't something I go around doing and would never dream of such conduct.

    I believe that makes me reasonable and those who think otherwise, quite unreasonable.
    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    The SYG language/holdings that allows a shooter to instigate and provoke another who responds by giving them a reason to fear so the instigator/aggressor can then legally kill them, goes against all maxims of law.
    Agree

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    Drejka should have called the police and let them handle the woman's heinous parking act.
    Agree
    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    I do know a guy that lost his carry permit (and had to pay five figures in fines) for carrying himself like law enforcement and acting much like Drejka is shown to be acting in the video.

    However, he wasn't loud, crude, insulting in his simple request that a lady move out of a loading zone at the airport terminal as her loitering there clearly violated all the posted instructions.
    And you know that Drejka was "loud, crude and insulting" how? There was no audio from the video from the stores security cameras, there are no news stations that have talked to any witnesses as well as the sheriff's department releasing no statements made from witnesses.
    I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.......

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