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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    You gotta be kidding me, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE WAS DOING OR DID you indicate no Trueman had any right to stomp Drejka's butt. Lemme know how you handle being in a similar situation when some mentally ill power hungry moron is cussing your wife with your small children within earshot.... and what exactly he was yelling at her in front of his children has not come out yet.

    The bottom line is if you study the Trueman doctrine, Drejka's conduct DID NOT FALL WITHIN THOSE BOOKENDS even had there not been prior complaints of him acting the same way.

    Do you run around 'billowing' while packing a concealed gun and take it upon yourself to harshly issue scathing rebukes to weaker and defenseless humans over trivial matters?

    If so, you just haven't met the right one yet and it is a tragic shame Mcglocklin didn't take his head off instead of just shoving him.
    I know I wouldnít shove the guy onto the ground. Are you barbaric enough to commit a battery without justification?

    what he was yelling...was he yelling or simply loud...anyway, unless it was a threat that the woman perceived mcglocklin may follow through on it really doesnít matter. Verbal abuse does not justify physical response. Apparently you have a anger management issue.

    Quote Quoting asa_jim
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    Given that reasonable people come to different conclusions based on the media reporting of this event, don't you think it is appropriate for the state attorney in the 6th circuit to determine whether a crime should be charged? And shouldn't a judge and jury make a determination as well? There is no blanket right to kill someone who has shoved you to the ground without more. That simply is not the law. The man was not even injured in the fall. Where was great bodily harm or death supposed to come from?
    He was shoved hard enough he could have been injured. Actually being injured falling or being shoved to the ground is a luck of the draw situation. Iíve seen people simply trip and fall and have broken a wrist. Iíve seen people shoved much harder than drejka and had no injury. Arguing he wasnít hurt is not a valid argument. The fact is he was shoved without justification. Then, as I view the video, he did move towards drejka. Given the extremely short time before drejka started to retrieved his weapon it isnít discernible what mcgloclkinís intent was but given he just shoved an older smaller man to the ground when there was no physical aggression shown by drejka, I wouldnít imagine it was to offer a hand to help him up.

    i dont see why the DA canít review the case and consider prosecution. Unless Florida functions very differently than my state, the prosecutor can make an independent decision to prosecute regardless what anybody else does. The police have no authority to require or prevent a prosecutor from seeking to prosecute a party.

    and unless i donít understand the law, it isnít that one has been injured but that one fears being subjected to great bodily harm or death.

    To me me this incident is a tough call. Mcgloclkin did retreat once drejka went to pull his weapon. Should drejka have stopped at that point? I believe so and if anything, that is why drejkaís case should have been subjected to greeter review, not because one wants to argue drejka wasnít in fear of being subjected to great bodily harm.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    if a man goes OUT OF HIS way to put himself in a situation that could result in him being battered (like trash talking a MAN'S woman in front of that MAN'S small children) he is not without fault and Drejka's character and propensity to go looking for these situations should condemn him.

    Yes, if I come upon a "man" intimidating and trash talking my woman in front of my small kids that shouldn't be exposed to such language and uncalled for garbage, there will be a reckoning.

    Drejeka is nothing more than a punk whose gun gave him huge brass nads.

    He won't last long in the pen.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    if a man goes OUT OF HIS way to put himself in a situation that could result in him being battered (like trash talking a MAN'S woman in front of that MAN'S small children) he is not without fault and Drejka's character and propensity to go looking for these situations should condemn him.

    Yes, if I come upon a "man" intimidating and trash talking my woman in front of my small kids that shouldn't be exposed to such language and uncalled for garbage, there will be a reckoning.

    Drejeka is nothing more than a punk whose gun gave him huge brass nads.

    He won't last long in the pen.
    sorry dude but you have some serious anger issues. The laws of our states do not allow a person to attack another without a valid basis. Getting loud and trash talking would not support a valid defense if one were to commit a battery on the rowdy person

    in the case at hand mcglocklin was guiity of a battery. If drejka was injured it was felony battery and I would have not one ounce of sympathy for some jackass that committed such a battery as mcglocklin did if I was on his jury. Iíve grown tired of seeing people like mcglocklin and yourself that believe violence is an acceptable response to an obnoxious character.

    Its s odd you say drejka wonít last long in the pen. The last I heard there will be no charges filed against him.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Our states you say??

    Wrong.

    Fighting words are, as first defined by the Supreme Court (SCOTUS) in Chaplinsky v New Hampshire, 315 U.S. 568 (1942), words which "by their very utterance, inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace. ... Fighting words are a category of speech that is unprotected by the First Amendment.

    Review statements from prior victims of his verbal assaults.


    I assure you that if you walk into a family establishment or public family event in this state where women and children are present, the likelihood of you getting beaten down mercilessly, and certainly until you shut your mouth, will be very high if your words are inappropriate for the present company.

    Sorry you don't grasp that level of genteel civility and respect for others.

    He won't last long on the street if they fail to indict him.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    I assure you that if you walk into a family establishment or public family event in this state where women and children are present, the likelihood of you getting beaten down mercilessly, and certainly until you shut your mouth, will be very high if your words are inappropriate for the present company.

    Sorry you don't grasp that level of genteel civility and respect for others.
    The irony. "He was being uncivil so we returned the favor by beating the crap out of him." If someone is too immature to ignore words, they need to stay in the house.

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    He won't last long on the street if they fail to indict him.
    That's what they said about Zimmermann.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    The irony. "He was being uncivil so we returned the favor by beating the crap out of him." If someone is too immature to ignore words, they need to stay in the house.



    That's what they said about Zimmermann.

    So you allow people to speak any way they may wish in front of your children and nothing they could possibly say would not provoke you to immediately act with force to stop them?

    Here, you walk into a store say, and start offensive and indecent speech that quailfies for Fighting Words, and loud enough for people to hear, your azz whooping very well may be bought and paid for..........

    I wouldn't say Zimmerman is flourishing.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    So you allow people to speak any way they may wish in front of your children and nothing they could possibly say would not provoke you to immediately act with force to stop them?
    Yes. I have a temper but I'm mature enough to control it. If someone is speaking inappropriately and does not respond to requests to moderate their language, you remove yourself from the situation. Ya know, being the bigger person.

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    Here, you walk into a store say, and start offensive and indecent speech that quailfies for Fighting Words, and loud enough for people to hear, your azz whooping very well may be bought and paid for..........
    Then your state desperately needs to be dragged into the modern world.

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    I wouldn't say Zimmerman is flourishing.
    But that's not what you said. You said the person wouldn't last very long on the street. Zimmerman is very much still around, despite the calls by some for vigilante action against him.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting jk
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    and unless i don’t understand the law, it isn’t that one has been injured but that one fears being subjected to great bodily harm or death.
    It goes into the reasonableness equation. If the man had already been injured then it would be more reasonable to believe he needed to use deadly force in order to avoid more serious injury that could result in death. It is a tougher sell if he was pushed to the ground without injury.

    To me me this incident is a tough call. Mcgloclkin did retreat once drejka went to pull his weapon. Should drejka have stopped at that point? I believe so and if anything, that is why drejka’s case should have been subjected to greeter review, not because one wants to argue drejka wasn’t in fear of being subjected to great bodily harm.
    Again, it is not whether Drejka was in fear but whether a reasonable person would believe that deadly force was necessary to avoid great bodily harm / death. Once a person begins backing away a reasonable person's apprehension or fear would be lessened, and the need to use deadly force dissipates. Under that circumstance, firing would seem to be more retaliatory than a reasonable use of deadly force.

    Yes, in Florida it will be the State Attorney for the 6th judicial circuit that will decide whether to charge. Or, he could present evidence to a grand jury. Even then, the governor could still appoint a special prosecutor if the elected state attorney doesn't file. That's what happened in the Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin case. My boss declined to file in that case believing there was not probable cause. The governor's appointed prosecutor charged second degree murder. So this isn't over until it's over. Only the sheriff has spoken so far.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting asa_jim
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    It goes into the reasonableness equation. If the man had already been injured then it would be more reasonable to believe he needed to use deadly force in order to avoid more serious injury that could result in death. It is a tougher sell if he was pushed to the ground without injury.

    Do you believe Drejka's prior conduct of allegedly assaulting others at that same store and seemingly looking for a fight with others over equally trivial matters will have a bearing on determining his reasonableness if not determining if his conduct foreclosed on his Trueman standing with the sheriff being quite charitable to presume Drejka is entitled?

    I believe it should and doubt he would have put himself in those instigating confrontational situations if unarmed.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Does This Actually Fit in the Bookends of Syg

    Quote Quoting KK1968
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    Do you believe Drejka's prior conduct of allegedly assaulting others at that same store and seemingly looking for a fight with others over equally trivial matters will have a bearing on determining his reasonableness if not determining if his conduct foreclosed on his Trueman standing with the sheriff being quite charitable to presume Drejka is entitled?

    I believe it should and doubt he would have put himself in those instigating confrontational situations if unarmed.
    This would be governed at trial by Florida statute 90.404 regarding admissibility of character evidence. 90.404(2)(a) provides:

    Similar fact evidence of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is admissible when relevant to prove a material fact in issue, including, but not limited to, proof of motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, or absence of mistake or accident, but it is inadmissible when the evidence is relevant solely to prove bad character or propensity.
    In a SYG hearing a judge can look at any evidence and is not bound by the rules of evidence for trial.

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