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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    672

    Default Buying and Selling Real Estate Without a Lawyer

    According to this (and someone else may know better), yes, you do need an attorney;
    [W]e conclude that the closing or settlement of the types of real estate transactions described in the record require not only the presence but the substantive participation of an attorney on behalf of the mortgage lender, and that certain services connected with real property conveyances constitute the practice of law in Massachusetts.
    All you are getting is a quit claim deed? What did your title search show? Any easements on the property?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Buyer's Requirements at Closing

    Thanks. The link you mention only talks about "an attorney on behalf of the mortgage lender". There is no mortgage and no lender. It is a cash sale.
    Yes, quit claim deed. I believe, title search is not required in a cash sale. There are no easements on the property.

    I called the registry of deeds, and they said that the only thing they need is a deed (seller's responsibility) and the recording fee. I think most people also obtain and record MLC, but they did not say I have to do it - it just protects me against potential future tax claims from the town. So, my question is what is the absolute minimum that is required by law in a cash sale?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Buyer's Requirements at Closing

    Unless you know a lot (and I mean a LOT) about the history of this property, a quit claim deed and not title history search is a recipe for disaster


    you need to realize I could deliver a quit claim deed to you in exchange for money for that same piece of property and it be legal and you would have no recourse when you realized I didn’t have any real interest in the property.

    A quit claim deed tranfsrs any interest the grantor has to the grantee. It doesn’t mean he actually has any interest to transfer. Along with that with no title search (and you should really consider purchasing title insurance), there is no guarantee you are actually buying that property and have no recourse when the real owner walks up and says get off my land.

    You are making a lot of mistakes. While I have purchased property and received a quit claim deed, I used to be in the real estate business and knew the risks but more importantly, I knew the history of the property. I did pay for a title history search to support what I already believed to be the true history of the property.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Buyer's Requirements at Closing

    Is there a closing agent involved? If so they often handle deed registering and tax apportionment.

    If there is no closing agent, you’re left to fend for yourself. You need to calculate the tax apportionment so you know what the seller owes for the current tax year. You need to make sure the seller pays their share, whether it be to you or to the tax assessors office. You need to endure the deed you recieve is proper and conveys what you believe you are buying and is executed properly and you are who registers the deed.

    If there is an existing mortgage you need to ensure the seller pays the debt at or before closing. You need to make sure the mortgage release gets registered

    Personally I think you’re in over your head and should hire a lawyer to protect your interests.

    And i didn’t even mention possible liens against the property. Heck, without a proper title search there could be tax liens and judgment liens and mechanics liens (or whatever your state calls construction liens) against the property that far exceed the value of the property.


    The more I ponder the possible problems, the more I feel the need to suggest you do hire an attorney.

    Of course with all of this said, maybe none of it applies and this is the smoothest transaction you can have but with real estate, it’s a real risk if you don’t understand what your doing and what you’re looking at. Get somebody to help you unless you are willing to take the risk of losing anything you pay for the land as well as the land.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Buyer's Requirements at Closing

    I believe at this point, not only is it customary for an attorney to preside over closings in Massachusetts (as opposed to a title or escrow officer), it's now a requirement.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Buyer's Requirements at Closing

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    I believe at this point, not only is it customary for an attorney to preside over closings in Massachusetts (as opposed to a title or escrow officer), it's now a requirement.
    I read the link provided earlier but it isn’t clear. It speaks to the need for an attorney being predicated on the mortgage lender needing a lawyer to represent them as part of their input has been determined to be practicing law. So, at least in that reading the need was not predicated on the basis of protections for any of the parties but simply due to the fact it was determined the lender had to have one simply due to the fact they would be in violation of the law regarding unlicensed practice of law without one.

    But the other party does have a lawyer. Unless each party is obligated to BYOA (bring your own attorney), the other guy should suffice, yes?

    this is from mass.gov
    The "closing or settlement of real property conveyances requires not only the presence but the substantive participation of an attorney on behalf of the mortgage lender, and that certain services connected with realproperty conveyances constituted the practice of law in Massachusetts.
    I do keep reading that an attorney is required and a few refer to issues that are not necessarily mortgage related. I’ll keep digging

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Buyer's Requirements at Closing

    If some third party is going to be involved, it needs to be an attorney. This not only covers representing the bank but also the preparation of things like the deed is legal work and can't be done by a lay person (in fact, even down here where the closings are handled by other fiduciaries, the deeds and certain other documents require an attorney. Most settlement offices have an attorney on staff).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Buyer's Requirements at Closing

    Are you saying I can’t write my own deeds? Balderdash. Upl doesn’t apply to me representing myself and me writing a deed for myself is just that. Obviously I cannot interpret anything within the deed for the grantee and they would have to seek an attorney to advise them but I sure as heck can write my own deeds.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    18,340

    Default Re: Buyer's Requirements at Closing

    If there was no statute cited then it's just some bureaucrat's opinion.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Buyer's Requirements at Closing

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    If there was no statute cited then it's just some bureaucrat's opinion.
    That is an excerpt from a court decision

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