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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    1. There was an investigation. It began as the BB gun. It then became an investigation into the muzzleloader.

    2. If they were not aware you had it, or had bigger fish to fry, yes they may possibly wait months to get around to you.

    3. Again, provide the backing case law or statute. I have never heard of such a restriction. The allowance for police deception is usually very broad and I don't see anything wrong with anything done here. There were no apparent lies told. Perhaps deception if the officer used the BB gun as a pretext for making contact but even then, not what a court is likely to consider illegal deception.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    3,233

    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    Quote Quoting Hemispheres
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    1).
    3). In regards to deception it is only done legally after arrests/detainments are made or during interrigations which didnít occur in this case, two weeks after obtaining the gun they return with an arrest warrant but didnít arrest me. The officer with the detective had his body cam on, however the detective who arrived the first time had no red light on his body cam usually indicating its inactive so itíll be pretty easy given the timeline to fit my version of events.
    Do you have a legal cite to support that statement?

  3. #23

    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    Thereís no investigation period. Investigatons are made when a crime has been committed. Spray painting a B.B. gun is not illegal on the federal or state level. The only regulations are applied to manufacturers of toy and airsoft guns that donít operate in a manner similar to firearms. You can paint over the orange tip as long as you arenít committing a crime with it. Bottom line is if there was an investigation I wouldíve been hit with two charges. The violent crimes unit wouldnít become involved unless I shot somebody which Iím not being charged with either.

    In regards to deceptive practices, itís no law but a thin red line courts expect police not to cross in order to have a higher chance of making it to trial and winning.

    Itís the bottom line, much as police cannot lie to get dna from your person, they cannot lie to coerce you into a consent to search.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    3,233

    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    Quote Quoting Hemispheres
    View Post

    In regards to deceptive practices, it’s no law but a thin red line courts expect police not to cross in order to have a higher chance of making it to trial and winning.

    It’s the bottom line, much as police cannot lie to get dna from your person,

    Then you should have no problem citing such court decisions.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    7,646

    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    Quote Quoting Hemispheres
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    There’s no investigation period.
    Yes, there is. It was an investigation into your possession of the muzzleloader.

    Quote Quoting Hemispheres
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    The violent crimes unit wouldn’t become involved unless I shot somebody which I’m not being charged with either.
    Um, there is no rule that says they can't investigate things that aren't violent crimes.

    Quote Quoting Hemispheres
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    In regards to deceptive practices, it’s no law but a thin red line courts expect police not to cross in order to have a higher chance of making it to trial and winning.
    So you admit you cannot back up your claims. Got it. Could a court side with you on this? Yes. Will they? I would say the odds are 95-5 and not in your favor.

    Quote Quoting Hemispheres
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    It’s the bottom line, much as police cannot lie to get dna from your person, they cannot lie to coerce you into a consent to search.
    They can deceive you to get your DNA. The old "ya want something to drink/eat" trick.

    They DID NOT lie to you. Even if they did, they didn't coerce you into consenting to a search.

  6. #26

    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    Um no they werenít. If they knew Iím in possession of one its as simple as get a warrant.

    Google deceptive police practices and youíll see the only legal ones are during investigations EXCLUDING COERCION.

    The example online was two ATF agents knocking on a mans door who was suspected of firearms trafficking. They said they received a report that there may be explosives in his apartment. They mentioned itís standard procedure to just show up and ensure all is ok, then get his permission to search. Dispite having evidence of his activities it was thrown out due to the manner they gained entry and permission. Then thereís subjective consent and the form I signed. If itís the form I now suspect I signed after reading about yet another similar case then itís going to get tossed out or Iíll be found NG due to lack/suppression of evidence.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    3,233

    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    Since you seem incapable of doing so I followed your command and found this which counters your statement.

    As the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly acknowledged, "Criminal activity is such that stealth and strategy are necessary weapons in the arsenal of the police officer." (Sorrells v. U.S.) "Nor will the mere fact of deceit defeat a prosecution, for there are circumstances when the use of deceit is the only practicable law enforcement technique available." (U.S. v. Russell)

  8. #28

    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    ACLU search and siezure handbook page 21 third paragraph.

    https://www.aclu.org/files/FilesPDFs...ld%20Guide.pdf

    4th amendment guide:

    https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cg...enn_law_review

    Bottom line is I didnít know it was illegal, officer used deceptive means and cited the wrong law section (Read the subsection regarding rifles instead of antique weapons; his rationale being solely focused on definition instead of restrictions regarding possession) and may have lied to me regarding the form I signed. That last part will be figured out once the PD gets the subsequent paperwork.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    7,646

    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    Quote Quoting Hemispheres
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    ACLU search and siezure handbook page 21 third paragraph.

    https://www.aclu.org/files/FilesPDFs...ld%20Guide.pdf
    I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. First, it's about Oregon. Second, the third paragraph (depending on how you count it) talks about exigency.

  10. #30

    Default Re: How to Request a Public Defender

    Itís based the us constitution, some excerpts are from Oregon law likely due to being written by the Oregon ACLU.

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