How to Request a Public Defender

[Hemispheres]

After getting a PD and speaking with him I’m most likely going to fight the charges if they offer probation. Given the circumstances surrounding him showing up I can probably argue coercion.

The officer showed up over a complaint of me spray painting a B.B. gun. I’ve gone through my financial records and have found this B.B. gun was purchased in mid Jan and most likely spraypainted in early Feb. Also, spray painting a B.B. gun in and of itself is not a crime and it makes no sense for an officer from the violent crimes unit to show up 5 months later since you can’t investigate something that is legal.

Also, before I signed the paperwork he claimed was just an exchange of custody form he told me you aren’t in any trouble which I can argue was a false statement used to get me to sign said paperwork. I say this because he said all he was going to do is was check with someone he knew to see what the legality of me owning it was but then turned it over to the state prosecutor.

[free9man]

I don't see any coercion or false statements there.

He collected the weapon and said you aren't in trouble, apparently due to him being incorrect about there being an issue. He then checked and someone said "OP can't do that, it's against the law." At that point, he turned it over to the prosecutor. The prosecutor decided to pursue the issue and here you are.

[Hemispheres]

The fact that he didn’t inform me there would be any wrong doing in my part for misinterpreting the law combined with the fact he told me the form I agreed to sign was only to give him permission to take the gun would point to coercion based on (probable) fact that it was most likely a form saying I waived my 4th amendment rights. Been researching quite a bit and have found tons of law articles regarding coercion citing cases as references. Coercion does not always mean threats of arrest or bodily harm are made, there is a term known as subjective consent that basically means, would the average person in my situation have acted any differently. Combine that with the way all played out and him not relaying key info to me as to what was going on can be argued by coercion. Here in Va an officer found to have coerced in such a manner only 2 times loses his job and any time he does he is responsible for my court costs and I can sue for damages.

[free9man]

NO, that is NOT coercion. It just isn't. Period. Had he knowingly lied to you, maybe. He didn't. You didn't READ the form before signing it? That wasn't very wise. He described the situation based on his understanding of it and you cooperated. End of story unless you can provide case citations that are directly on point for this set of circumstances.

[Hemispheres]

After the officer told me the form was simply me giving him permission to take custody of the gun until he contacted someone in regards to the legality of me posssesing it, I explicitly asked “so this is just basically an exchange of property form?” and he replied yes.

[free9man]

After the officer told me the form was simply me giving him permission to take custody of the gun until he contacted someone in regards to the legality of me posssesing it, I explicitly asked “so this is just basically an exchange of property form?” and he replied yes.

And? You should have READ it so you would understand it. If that is all it was, not sure what you are going on about about 4th amendment waivers, then he did not lie to you. Even if he did, the police are allowed to lie to you. This proves nothing.

He showed up for whatever reason and asked if you had firearms.
You said you had a muzzleloader.
He didn't know if you could legally have that, so he asked you to turn over the weapon while he checked.
You did.
He later found out it was not legal for you to have it.
Charges were pressed.
Here you are.
You need to get a lawyer and speak no more of this to anyone but that lawyer.

[Hemispheres]

The police cannot use deception to obtain evidence unless there is a crime committed or there is an investigation. Spray painting a B.B. gun is not illegal so no crime thus no investigation.

The fact of the matter is he walked in the door asking about a spraypainted B.B. gun from 5 months ago claiming there was a complaint made about it, with paperwork in hand regarding my involuntary hospitalizations.

[free9man]

The police cannot use deception to obtain evidence unless there is a crime committed or there is an investigation.

Can you provide case law backing that up? I've never heard of such a thing.

Spray painting a B.B. gun is not illegal so no crime thus no investigation.

There was an investigation occurring, the investigation became: was into your possession of the muzzleloader legal.

It is not illegal for the police to ask someone if they have guns, especially if they know that person isn't supposed to have them.

As for the BB gun, did he walk up to you and say "Hey, someone reported you were spray painting a BB gun. That true?" or did he say something else.

[jk]

The police cannot use deception to obtain evidence unless there is a crime committed or there is an investigation. Spray painting a B.B. gun is not illegal so no crime thus no investigation.

The fact of the matter is he walked in the door asking about a spraypainted B.B. gun from 5 months ago claiming there was a complaint made about it, with paperwork in hand regarding my involuntary hospitalizations.

Actually the police can use deception aka lying. They can’t trick you into doing something illegal that you otherwise wouldn’t have done (entrapment) and they can’t force you to break the law (coercion) but they can lie.

Beyond that, you should read what your signing

beyond that, it wouldn’t matter if you signed the paperwork or even relinquished the gun to the cop. If he saw it and later discovered it was illegal for you to possess it, he could come back later and arrest you.

[Hemispheres]

1). There is no investigation. He cited a complaint about a B.B. gun and the PD has petitioned for all relavent paperwork. They would’ve gotten a warrant to get the gun as opposed to risk this method.

2). The police would not wait months after I had purchased and fired said muzzleloader 44 times in that time period out in the woods behind a large subdivision.

3). In regards to deception it is only done legally after arrests/detainments are made or during interrigations which didn’t occur in this case, two weeks after obtaining the gun they return with an arrest warrant but didn’t arrest me. The officer with the detective had his body cam on, however the detective who arrived the first time had no red light on his body cam usually indicating its inactive so it’ll be pretty easy given the timeline to fit my version of events.