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  1. #51
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    With all due respect, llworking is not an attorney and I dare say not really in a position to say to what databases lawyers and judges would have exclusive access.
    llworking used to work in a court clerk's office in CA, for some time I believe. It is possible that there might have been some local databases where she was. I don't know if any such database would contain information that OP is looking for.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    llworking used to work in a court clerk's office in CA, for some time I believe. It is possible that there might have been some local databases where she was. I don't know if any such database would contain information that OP is looking for.
    May a court utilize non-public databases that do not contain the information we're discussing? Of course. But that's wildly irrelevant to the discussion, and doesn't change the fact that the type of database Brian imagines does not exist. Nobody with a whit of sense is going to spend $millions to create and maintain such a system because, for reasons we have already discussed, the information that could be obtained is not actually useful.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    llworking used to work in a court clerk's office in CA, for some time I believe. It is possible that there might have been some local databases where she was. I don't know if any such database would contain information that OP is looking for.
    Sorry free9man but you are mixing me up with someone else. I am a tax professional in Indiana. I am familiar with the subject due to a lot of legal research that I had to do in grad school, and the legal research that I have to do now. Tax professionals need to access case law too.l

  4. #54
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    No, it was CourtClerk that used to be Court Clerk in California.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Sorry free9man but you are mixing me up with someone else. I am a tax professional in Indiana. I am familiar with the subject due

    to a lot of legal research that I had to do in grad school, and the legal research that I have to do now. Tax professionals need to access case law too.l
    Quote Quoting cbg
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    No, it was CourtClerk that used to be Court Clerk in California.
    So it was. Brainfart.

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    But that's wildly irrelevant to the discussion, and doesn't change the fact that the type of database Brian imagines does not exist.
    This discussion has gone so far afield at this point. But you are right. No sense giving him anything else to cling to.

  6. #56
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    Apr 2018
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    Long Beach, CA
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    I am a tax professional in Indiana. I am familiar with the subject due to a lot of legal research that I had to do in grad school, and the legal research that I have to do now. Tax professionals need to access case law too.l
    Are you still saying that these search engine exist? I think they do.

    How can there be so many that search real estate records but none that search court records? It makes no sense, they are both public record. Prosecutors are graded on their success rate. How is that done unless by using search engines that access court records?

    If there are search engines that will tell you how many bicycle tickets were issued in a given zip code, then I'd assume they do exist. It's just that the resident Google searchers here are turning up nothing, so they say they don't exist.

    As follow-on, I have this question going out to a couple Verizon corporate lawyers.

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    May a court utilize non-public databases that do not contain the information we're discussing? Of course. But that's wildly irrelevant to the discussion, and doesn't change the fact that the type of database Brian imagines does not exist. Nobody with a whit of sense is going to spend $millions to create and maintain such a system because, for reasons we have already discussed, the information that could be obtained is not actually useful.
    Then explain why so many companies have "spent $millions to create and maintain such systems" in real estate public record? There is much more money and much more at risk in the court system.

    FYI - Now I see what you do when you are backed against the wall. Disgraceful.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    That is what I was looking for. Thank you.

    I never asked if I could access them. Like in real estate, those search engines are only available to professionals in the field who are willing to pay for it.

    So let me ask you; have you used a search engine like that? It seems it would be easy for it to show stats on any given attorney? Cases filed, cases tried, cases settled without trial, cases settled prior to a verdict, etc... It should all be there in black and white on any attorney.

    I am not aware of any database, anywhere, that does that. Like I said, there might be some local courts, somewhere that have chosen to track that information for their area, but if there are, I do not know who they are.

  8. #58
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    Apr 2018
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    Long Beach, CA
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    I am not aware of any database, anywhere, that does that. Like I said, there might be some local courts, somewhere that have chosen to track that information for their area, but if there are, I do not know who they are.
    Fair enough. Let's see how a few other attorneys weigh in on it?

    I have to ask, have you used proprietary real estate search engines that are typically owned/used by title companies?

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    Are you still saying that these search engine exist? I think they do.
    Then if they do, I think you would have found them, wouldn't you? Or you'd at least find references to them in your Google searches to point you to them. The fact that you haven't, and that lawyers like myself who are familiar with what law related computer services are available don't know of any such services, ought to tell you that very likely no such services exist. Why? Because the data you seek does not tell you much about how good or bad an attorney is. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. And because it it is not useful for that, there would be little demand for it (beyond a few folks like you, I suppose) and thus no one has invested the money into it. Just because you insist such services must exist does not mean that they do.

    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    Prosecutors are graded on their success rate. How is that done unless by using search engines that access court records?
    Prosecutors are judged by their employers on how well they do their jobs; their performance in court is certainly very important, but the rate of conviction is only part of that. Their employers do not need access to some third party database to determine how well their attorneys do. They review the actual cases tried, meaning every aspect of the case, not just some measure of win/loss, which by itself is not a very good measure of how good an attorney is.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Vetting an Attorney

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    Then if they do, I think you would have found them, wouldn't you? Or you'd at least find references to them in your Google searches to point you to them. The fact that you haven't, and that lawyers like myself who are familiar with what law related computer services are available don't know of any such services, ought to tell you that very likely no such services exist. Why? Because the data you seek does not tell you much about how good or bad an attorney is. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. And because it it is not useful for that, there would be little demand for it (beyond a few folks like you, I suppose) and thus no one has invested the money into it. Just because you insist such services must exist does not mean that they do.

    Prosecutors are judged by their employers on how well they do their jobs; their performance in court is certainly very important, but the rate of conviction is only part of that. Their employers do not need access to some third party database to determine how well their attorneys do. They review the actual cases tried, meaning every aspect of the case, not just some measure of win/loss, which by itself is not a very good measure of how good an attorney is.
    As a GC all my City activity is tracked and retrievable. How does The Bar keep track of lawyers?

    OH, and knowing a lawyer's performance in the courtroom is as valuable as knowing a pro basketball player's performance on the court.

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