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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    4,301

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Or simply on a busy street at 35-40 mph on a sunny, dry day.

    Sure one has to react quickly to rocks and logs when riding on off road. But last time a checked 2 ton boulders don't pull out in front of you.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    236

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting jk
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    oh you are so full of crap dude. Try riding street bikes at night in the rain in 70 mph tight traffic (like rush hour type traffic). You better damn well be alert and able to react very quickly, but not in a manner you’re going to go down because of it. Skill doesn’t live only in the dirt.
    I would not ride in the street because I won't put my life in those people's hands. A bicycle allows me more response time and maneuverability.

    But it’s become obvious nobody knows more than you or has done anything close to what you have done in life so I’ll just mosey on out the door.
    Me too. But if I wanted to know why a Tour de France Racer made a certain move, I wouldn't ask a spectator. I'd ask a rider.

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    Or simply on a busy street at 35-40 mph on a sunny, dry day.

    Sure one has to react quickly to rocks and logs when riding on off road. But last time a checked 2 ton boulders don't pull out in front of you.
    True, there are much bigger consequences in the street, that's why I won't do it. But a dirt biker could adapt to the street far easier than a street biker adapting to the dirt.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    I would not ride in the street because I won't put my life in those people's hands. A bicycle allows me more response time and maneuverability.
    actually a bicycle doesn’t allow for more response time. At a given speed it alllows for exactly the same response time Given the fact I can accelerate quickly withthe twist of my wrist it actually makes the motorcycle more maneuverable. I can accelerate and lean really hard at the same time. Not as easy on a bicycle. While I power through the turn and even accelerate, the bicyclist is more often relegated to coasting through the turn.




    Me too. But if I wanted to know why a Tour de France Racer make a certain move, I wouldn't ask a spectator. I'd ask a rider.
    so if I was chatting with lance Armstrong while watching the Tour de France I should probably ignore any info he may give me on tactics and strategy?

    I like to ask the people that have knowledge regardless of what they’re doing.


    Your statement about asking a rider is the same attitude you’ve shown through this entire thread. You discount people because you don’t think they have the knowledge and/or training to be able to answer a given question. Be careful about doing that. You might find yourself next to warren buffet willing to give you some investment advice but you would probably discount it because he isn’t on the stock exchange floor.

    Not every licensed attorney works as a lawyer. Not every licensed doctor treats patients.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    193

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    Change it from what? What the Commander blurted out after failing to do a scientific investigation?
    Sherrif’s Commanders are skilled in PR and know not to make unsubstantiated statements to the media. We don’t know what information he had but likely the initial data and impressions from the investigators. All statements had some level of qualification to allow for potential changes after detailed analysis. This event was likely straightforward enough that the sherrif’s office was confident of the investigation results early on. Also, his comments did not place blame, just that the truck driver apparently did nothing criminal.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting joef
    View Post
    Sherrif’s Commanders are skilled in PR and know not to make unsubstantiated statements to the media. We don’t know what information he had but likely the initial data and impressions from the investigators. All statements had some level of qualification to allow for potential changes after detailed analysis. This event was likely straightforward enough that the sherrif’s office was confident of the investigation results early on. Also, his comments did not place blame, just that the truck driver apparently did nothing criminal.
    I apologize for sounding boastful, that just degrades the conversation. I just want to make two statements:

    1) The Commander spoke too soon before using the scientific tools at his disposal.

    2) With personal familiarity with that intersection while approaching it on a bike at high speed, I know that with all my biking skills, that truck could have killed me too. It would be due to him not using his rear view mirrors. Something any street motorcyclist should understand.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Apparently cyclists ride this street Fast as a regular thing. It must be the fast hill thrill spot.

    http://bikinginla.com/2016/03/08/bre...-palos-verdes/





    I can say there sure are a lot of bicycle accidents in that area. That’s usially a sign the bikers are not careful enough (like in they ride faster than they are capable of doing so safely)

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    I managed to track down the collision report on-line minus the supplements containing witness statements.

    The last 7 pages contain the report, absent any witness statements. I suspect the missing witness statements may well clarify things as to why they reached the conclusions they did so quickly. As I have said, most collisions are not rocket science to figure out, and ALL fatals are tragic (and can have a lasting impact on the surviving parties) regardless of assigned fault.

    http://documents.rpvca.gov/WebLink/D...84&page=1&cr=1

    From what I have read elsewhere, the lawsuit was still in its initial phases as of October 2017 and the estate of the deceased is suing everyone from the state of California on down. Ultimately, I suspect a settlement from Mayflower may be forthcoming somewhere down the line.

    I also found a couple of videos indicating that this route is a heck of an attractive ride for cyclists which could make for some unsafe situations if due care is not taken by the cyclists exceeding the speed limit, and drivers having to watch out for them.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    193

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Thank you for finding this for us.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    Apparently cyclists ride this street Fast as a regular thing. It must be the fast hill thrill spot.

    http://bikinginla.com/2016/03/08/bre...-palos-verdes/

    Cyclists like hills for the workout of the climb, not for the thrill of the descent. The descent may look thrilling but it is very dangerous and a fall at those speeds would be ugly.

    I can say there sure are a lot of bicycle accidents in that area. That’s usually a sign the bikers are not careful enough (like in they ride faster than they are capable of doing so safely)
    Members of my Bike Club, Peninsula Cycle Club (spam), have been hit regularly in PV. I rarely hear of a high speed, descending accident like this. We are usually picked off from behind while riding far to the right or within the bike lane.

    The police and residents dislike the cyclists in PV. Regardless of the number of bike accidents, the police have yet to enforce the 3' Bike Law. The residents dislike cyclists because they hog the road and don't allow cars to pass. It's a heated relationship up there, but it is usually due to the disregard the cyclists show toward the cars. They get into their workout and forget to look who's behind them. It was exacerbated by a lawyer that rides for the victim's club, Big Orange. His club formally staged a protest against the Palos Verdes Police Dept for not offering more protection for the cyclists. That really screwed things up with the police. Now they write us up for anything.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    I get the point of the uphill. After all that’s part of the workout but the guys in the video were running it downhill and obviously for the thrill of the speed. Have you never heard of an adrenaline rush?

    Again you are one sided in your statements. After all, what goes up must come down and there are no Penrose stairs in real life.

    Regarding your 3’ bike law;

    it would be great if the bikers also stayed 3’ away from all cars as well but they don’t. You can’t expect drivers to comply with the law if bikers (you know, the guys the law way made to protect) don’t live by the law themselves. The will zoom right past a car often times so close its luck they don’t hit the mirror.

    Whats that you say? Bicycles aren’t required to stay 3 feet away from a car when they pass the car. It’s kind of hard to convince a car driver to stay 3’ away from a bike right after the biker darn near took his mirror off moments before.


    On a side note;

    What I see as ironic is you have this 3’ law which seems so contradictory given the acceptance of lane splitting for motorcycles. Makes no sense to me.

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