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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
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    236

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting jk
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    The reporter stated the truck had stopped at the light and when it turned green he started his turn. What cyclist in his right mind is going to be heading 45 mph this close to an intersection facing a red light (in a 35 mph zone mind you)


    i have to agree with brian57 that the truck wasn’t in the right turn lane, or at least completely. It looks like it’s probably a 53’ van (the longest you can get) with a very long wheelbase tractor and the rear axles on the trailer are as far back as you can get (makes for a very wide turning radius). That guy was set up for long haul driving Most city trucks use a shorter van and/or kick their rear axles as far forward as their load alllows for. He may have run his wheels on the sidewalk even if he started in the first straight lane. That’s a very long wheelbase and it takes a lot of area to make turns.

    For it to be the truckers fault he would have had to completely relinquish the right lane so it would appear the truck was going straight. If traffic was extremely light that is a possibility. If there is much of any traffic there at that time of day it’s less likely the truck totally gave up the right lane. They typically waggle the truck to use it as a barricade to retain possession of the turn lane even while swinging left into the straight through lanes.


    There isnt enough info available to even guess as to fault. It could go either way based on the limited info we have.
    It sounds like you may have trucking experience, or at least are good at geometry. In my observation of trucking radius', that truck would take down the traffic light if it started its turn from against the curb.

    You guys say there is not enough information. Well, there is a lot of information already. The only things missing is where did he start his turn from and where on the truck did the cyclist strike. If he hit the tractor and not the trailer, what does that tell you about possible fault?

    If he hit the trailer, what does that tell you about possible fault? Answer each scenario please.

    As a cyclist I have a very good idea how this could have happened... to even me.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    I can't edit my previous post, but, I meant to write, " I am confident that the investigation DID NOT RELY SOLELY on what the Mayflower driver said."

    And, yeah, WE don't have enough info to determine fault. But, I'm guessing that the guys that did the investigation DID have the necessary info.
    So you are saying that the skilled cyclist chose to ride up the right side of the truck while it was up against the curb, with turn signals on, when he had two lanes to the left to just pass it?

    To the cyclist's experience; He rode with a club called Big Orange. It is a club of mostly fast, experienced racers. They ride about 200mi a week in curvy, hilly Palos Verdes.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    7,603

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    No, there isn't enough information. We don't know what the trucker said/did. We don't know if the trucks turn signal was on. We don't know if the cyclist was travelling head down like an idiot and not paying attention to traffic. We don't know if the cyclist made any sort of maneuvers to avoid the collision. We don't know where the cyclist struck the truck.

    All of those can play a part in determining the exact course of events and help law enforcement determine which person was responsible for the accident.

    Generally speaking, if he had hit the tractor that might indicate that the turn may have been sudden and he didn't have any warning it was going to happen. He still shouldn't have been passing on the right well over the speed limit. If he hit the tractor, that would a good indication that the truck had already begun the turn and the cyclist should have known and acted appropriately. Just because he hit the tractor doesn't not automatically mean he didn't do anything wrong. The cyclist was speeding and not paying attention to traffic so the accident is going to be his responsibility almost completely, if not completely, under most circumstances.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    2,885

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    To the cyclist's experience; He rode with a club called Big Orange. It is a club of mostly fast, experienced racers. They ride about 200mi a week in curvy, hilly Palos Verdes.
    Experience does not mean there aren't bouts of stupidity. In fact, experience can lead to them.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,535

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    The extensive riding can lead to complacency or foolish risks thinking they have it under control.


    As to trucking experience. Used to be licensed to run semi’s. Didn’t use it much. Brother ran the road for 15-20 years. Many friends drove truck. Additonally I pay attention to the trucks on the road. Given the familiarity with trucking I try to give truckers a wide berth to do their thing. I know how difficult it can be, especially when being rushed or crowded.


    There still isn’t enough info to make a call. The precise plascement of the truck and where the contact was is critical in my mind. I don’t have either. In the video I saw scrub marks from a tire. Seeing the entirety of those marks and knowing which wheel they came from is important.

    Nust way too much missing to call it.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    The extensive riding can lead to complacency or foolish risks thinking they have it under control.


    As to trucking experience. Used to be licensed to run semi’s. Didn’t use it much. Brother ran the road for 15-20 years. Many friends drove truck. Additonally I pay attention to the trucks on the road. Given the familiarity with trucking I try to give truckers a wide berth to do their thing. I know how difficult it can be, especially when being rushed or crowded.


    There still isn’t enough info to make a call. The precise plascement of the truck and where the contact was is critical in my mind. I don’t have either. In the video I saw scrub marks from a tire. Seeing the entirety of those marks and knowing which wheel they came from is important.

    Nust way too much missing to call it.
    But there is!

    A question to those that feel qualified to analyze a fatal accident: What forensic evidence is at that accident scene that would be a major determiner of fault. It also, not being analyzed by a professional accident reconstructionist, made the Sheriff Deputy's comments very premature?

    BTW - I am holding back how I, or other skilled cyclists, could be killed by that truck. And yes, it would be the truck's fault. But first, maybe somebody else could tell how they feel that truck could kill a cyclist and it be the truck's fault? Any takers? Be specific please.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    186

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Per this article,
    https://www.dailybreeze.com/2016/03/...es-identified/
    The cyclist hit the trailer and the rear wheels. Even if the truck started wide that would put the cab through the intersection. So, assume the truck was blocking the entire road during a turn he started before the cyclist arrived, the cyclist is required to stop.
    Brian, you have decided the truck is at fault without the data from the accident investigation. You are not happy we don’t agree. Going down that hill over the speed limit makes the cyclist partially or totally responsible.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting joef
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    Per this article,
    https://www.dailybreeze.com/2016/03/...es-identified/
    The cyclist hit the trailer and the rear wheels. Even if the truck started wide that would put the cab through the intersection. So, assume the truck was blocking the entire road during a turn he started before the cyclist arrived, the cyclist is required to stop.
    Brian, you have decided the truck is at fault without the data from the accident investigation. You are not happy we don’t agree. Going down that hill over the speed limit makes the cyclist partially or totally responsible.
    I have not even commented on how I think it happened yet.

    It is you that seems to have no problem with the Deputy making those comments.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,535

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    Quote Quoting Brian57
    View Post
    But there is!

    A question to those that feel qualified to analyze a fatal accident: What forensic evidence is at that accident scene that would be a major determiner of fault. It also, not being analyzed by a professional accident reconstructionist, made the Sheriff Deputy's comments very premature?

    BTW - I am holding back how I, or other skilled cyclists, could be killed by that truck. And yes, it would be the truck's fault. But first, maybe somebody else could tell how they feel that truck could kill a cyclist and it be the truck's fault? Any takers? Be specific please.
    No there isn’t. All we have here is a sum total of;

    its stated truck was at a red light

    it was stated the cycle was possibly going as fast as 45 mph

    there was a tire scrub mark. We can’t see where it started nor from which wheel it came from.

    the bicycle impacted the truck somewhere along the side of the truck

    the truck was at some undefined point in his turn when the impact occurred.

    The cyclist was caught up somewhere under the truck.


    So, do you have more than that? That isn’t enough to make the call.


    Given joef’s addition that the impact occurred near the rear wheels, it tends to push fault on the cyclist but still nothing close to definative. We don’t have the angle of impact (may be determinable from the impact marks and could add to data that could make the issue clearer)

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,312

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists

    I, for one, truly despise the "what if ..." game. Why? Because the questioner can change and mold "facts" at every turn to twist and mold the direction of the hypothetical.

    In the news article, there is simply NOT sufficient information to make a determination of fault. Scuff marks aside, there is no information on the vehicle, the AOI, damage to the truck/trailer, presence of other physical evidence, presence of witnesses, etc. As such, I am not going to engage in a series of "if this, then that ..." replies. They grow tedious.

    The Sheriff's Commander stated that the cyclist was at fault. Okay, he made that statement. Whether he was correct or not, we do not know because we have zero information upon which to investigate further. No names, case numbers, nothing. Since collision reports are generally public information, it should be available for review if someone knew what to ask for. Only then will we know what the investigation concluded. Until then, we can speculate until the cows come home and never know if we're widely off the mark or not.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    186

    Default Re: Are Cars Supposed to Look Out for Bicyclists


    Quote Quoting Brian57
    View Post

    BTW - I am holding back how I, or other skilled cyclists, could be killed by that truck. And yes, it would be the truck's fault.
    Why have us speculate when you have an idea that places blame on the trucker, please enlighten us. Absent a civil trial for wrongful death, I expect we will not have access to the official accident report. The LA Sherriff’s Department has taken the position that the trucker is not criminally liable. Without those report details and based on very limited public information, most of us speculate that that the major blame goes to the cyclist. Please explain why we are wrong.

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