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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    Quote Quoting BLUEEAGLE COMMERCE
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    Disappointed. This is the second time you've suggested I need a lock to secure the privacy of my person, places, and things..................from the Police no less, the very same Officers that are sworn " to respect the Constitutional rights of all men to liberty, equality and justice."

    If an open door is an accepted exigency for warrant less entry......than failing to answer a locked door would also be an exigent circumstance justifying knocking the door down. It's a slippery slope my friend. And the door lock does me no good when it is those who took the "Protect and Serve" Oath, who struggle with the difference between protection and intrusion.

    Regardless of whether the reason for her entry was exigencies to the warrant requirement, or community care taking and concern for my well being(you offered both); The fact that she didn't pause long enough at the door for me to meet her inquiry at the door means she had zero "respect" for the Constitutional Rights of any rightful occupants who may be inside. Most Case Law on entry without warrant stresses that the Rights of the occupants be very carefully weighed against the societal benefits that may be gained.

    If you can't wait 3-5 seconds for me to answer my door in person at my door; I have a better understanding why Police and community relationships seem to be struggling more so these days.
    Pretty much everyone who has responded to you, including your wife (according to your original post), disagrees with you. If pretty much everyone disagrees with you, then its basically a sign that you are probably wrong.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Nothing unlawful or untoward occurred here.
    Sorry Carl. I don't see how you can say this as an absolute

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    The exception was likely more than just an unlocked door. I can't know because I was not there and did not speak to the officer.
    Then immediately offer a hypothetical such as this. You are effectively saying I don't know what the circumstances were for sure, but I'm positive the Cop was in the right. Is that a fair assessment of what you are saying and indicative of the level of Police bias influencing your opinion?

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Regardless of what you might think, what I might think, or what anyone on an internet message board might think, nothing will be accomplished by complaining here. If you want to change the status of the law or local police policy and practice, then you need to start advocating for such changes.
    Stellar Advice

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    In the meantime, law enforcement officers everywhere will (hopefully) continue to do their jobs as it appears this officer did.
    I obviously disagree. If she waits just a few seconds her inquiry can be satisfied at the door. Within a few minutes or less she could have ascertained who the rightful occupants were even. That would of been a nice piece of information to have. How long does it take for her run my license plate? She had multiple avenues to satisfy her suspicions without intruding on anyone, and it is safer for her as well to not enter.

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Pretty much everyone who has responded to you, including your wife (according to your original post), disagrees with you. If pretty much everyone disagrees with you, then its basically a sign that you are probably wrong.
    My Wife absolutely 100% agrees the Officer had far exceeded her lawful authority (according to my original post), she disagrees with actually filing an official Complaint against the Officer(also according to my original post).

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    Based on what you have stated, I don't see anything untoward. Now, if you can find some proof that she intended to commit some nefarious act by entering your property, that opinion can change. However, nothing you have written indicates anything but "routine". And, since I have been involved in criminal cases that began with scenarios just as you describe - and they withstood all challenges - I think it is safe to say that at least in the liberal state of CA such actions tend to be lawful.

    If you feel there was some for of Constitutional violation here, you are certainly free to spend many thousands of dollars for ... I'm not sure what ...but, you can do so.

    Ultimately, the legal test would be if the entry was "objectively reasonable" based upon the officer's observations and the facts, an evaluation we cannot make in its entirety since we do not know what the officer had observed or believed. Nothing presented in your narrative negates an exigency to make entry, but neither can we entirely justify it based upon what you observed. And, since there is no real legal proceeding to be had here, absent an expensive law suit for no discernible end, the only realistic recourse is a complaint and, perhaps, working to change state law or local agency policy and practice. While these actions might well be cathartic, I suspect that you may well be frustrated in any and all of those attempts.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Based on what you have stated, I don't see anything untoward. Now, if you can find some proof that she intended to commit some nefarious act by entering your property, that opinion can change. However, nothing you have written indicates anything but "routine". And, since I have been involved in criminal cases that began with scenarios just as you describe - and they withstood all challenges - I think it is safe to say that at least in the liberal state of CA such actions tend to be lawful.

    If you feel there was some for of Constitutional violation here, you are certainly free to spend many thousands of dollars for ... I'm not sure what ...but, you can do so.
    Oh, the State of California endorses "walk right in" searches?

    Is BOR still here?

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    Quote Quoting BLUEEAGLE COMMERCE
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    Oh, the State of California endorses "walk right in" searches?
    Of course not. And,the BOR is still alive and well in CA as we recognize both the 4th Amendment and the exceptions that exist within it. It takes more than a simple unlocked door to justify an entry, and I have never once stated that this was the case. You have to start reading up on the case law involving exigency and community caretaking to get a better picture of the boundaries. My resources for this are CA specific, so my citing them would not be wholly applicable for IL, though I suspect the reasoning and case law is similar if not identical.

    In the cases I was involved in, it had never been my intent to conduct a search of the location for evidence of a crime committed by the property owner, my involvement involved ascertaining the safety of the property and the belongings of the owner, the safety of the occupant or resident, etc. In each of the instances I had no prior knowledge of what I'd find, so it's not like I went, "Eureka! I found a loophole!" Sometimes you just stumble upon an indoor grow (when it was a crime)! (Note to criminals perusing these pages: Do NOT install a burglar alarm if you do not want the police to poke around inside when they find that open back door!)

    At this point, are you simply venting? Or, do you intend to pursue some form of action beyond the complaint process?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
    Posts
    1,678

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    Don't be a jerk, Bluey.

    The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are a framework for our system of laws, not laws themselves and those rights are not absolute and without limits. The 1st Amendment has limitations revolving around violence and harming others, the 2nd Amendment doesn't permit me to own my own M1A1 Bradley and the 4th Amendment doesn't guarantee me such an incredible degree of privacy that the police cannot enter a commercial space, with an unlocked door wand a van parked outside that is running. No one busted down a door, you left it unlocked. You created what could appear to a reasonable person suspicious circumstances (I especially like the running van outside, I never do that It's how you find yourself without a van). After determining that nothing was happening except a little "private time" the cop left. She didn't insist on poking around or interrogate you and wasn't even interested in seeing you ID or detaining you until you could prove that you were supposed to be there.

    I'm skeptical of law enforcement. It's not that I don't believe that it's a necessary part of living in society or that I think all cops are crooked, it's more that I don't trust too many people and I've had, shall we say, a colorful life that has led to a healthy reward for my privacy and my space. In order to keep LE personnel out of my life I lock doors, I follow traffic laws, I don't walk up and punch random people in the face who I feel deserve it. It's super easy! I don't leave doors unlocked because it's an invitation to entry and I don't vehicles running unattended because they vanish. If the van grew legs I'll bet that you's have screamed bloody murder and would've invited LE into your life.

    So, the moral of the story is don't creat suspicious scenes and leave doors unlocked. IT seems that us with a "colorful" past know how to keep the cops out of our affairs.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    At this point, are you simply venting? Or, do you intend to pursue some form of action beyond the complaint process?

    2 separate external videos without audio, as well as my video and audio were reviewed with our Counsel first thing today. A formal complaint will be filed by days end with the Department. A copy of that complaint will also be forwarded to the Police Civilian Review Board. Early Afternoon the Sixth Judicial Circuit Court will entertain motions compelling the PD to turn over the incident reports as well as any footage that they may be in possession of from either a car or body camera.

    We follow our Attorney's advice to the letter at this point. His course of action won't be entirely clear until he has the incident reports and any potential footage that exists.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    A motion to compel implies they were previously requested via discovery and not turned over. Is there a pending legal matter on this?

  9. #19

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    A motion to compel implies they were previously requested via discovery and not turned over. Is there a pending legal matter on this?
    Actually it is the discovery motions that will be filed this afternoon. I apologize if I implied the PD was not in compliance with the Rules of Discovery, as that is certainly not factual at this point.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,521

    Default Re: Police Entered My Rented Storage/Office Space

    From your description it would appear that she did call out, didn't hear an answer, and approached to make sure you WEREN'T lying bleeding on the floor, or that the door hadn't been left open and a truck running by a burglar.

    If you could barely hear her "hello", who's to say that she heard whatever answer you may have made? (I'm not going back four pages to find out if you did or not).

    In my view, you're the one who's being totally unreasonable, Blue.

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