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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    4,301

    Default Re: Help

    Because that unlicensed contractor is considered an employee.

    Because the policy covers burst pipes.

    Because it is the HO's property that injured the pedestrian.

    None of which is in anyway comparable to lending an item to a neighbor and then that neighbor damaging their own property.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Help

    It is, in theory, possible the homeowners insurer may pay the claim if it were a nuisance level claim. There is not, in this case, any legal duty or requirement on their part to do so as the insured wasn't responsible for the damage.

    P.S. AJ spent a great many years working in the insurance industry so he's fairly well versed in how things work there.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

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    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    Sorry, I think you guys learn what you post from one another and not from life or a courtroom.
    . You have yet to provide any support for ANY of your statements.

    Negligence has little to do with a HO policy's liability or contractual agreement to cover damages.
    . You are correct. The contractual relationship with the homeowner is what makes the insurance provider liable to pay a claim but the insurance company is not going to pay claims (other than as go away payments) if their insured is not liable for the damages claimed and the homeowner is generally not going to be found liable unless they were negligent in some. Way


    If you doubt this then please tell why a HO is liable when an unlicensed contractor injures himself on your property?
    they aren’t. The insurance company is only liable to indemnify the insured when the insured is liable for a damages claim. Your simple question cannot be answered because licensure is not the determining factor in most cases. You have not stated what type of contractor to start with and not all states require all contractors to be licensed. Based on your statement that would mean the homeowner is automatically liable for injuries such a non-licensed contractor receives. That simply is not true.

    Or, why a pipe burst is covered?
    again, thatvis such an incomplete scenario it cannot be properly addressed but I can assure you not all burst pipes are covered.

    [/QUOTE]Or, when a well secured shingle from your house flies across the street and hits a pedestrian on the head?[/QUOTE] you answered this within your own question. A well secured shingle does not fly from your house and across the street, at least without some extreme weather and due to that, since a well secured shingle will not fly across the street unless that extreme weather causes it, the homeowner escapes liability under an “act of God” defense. Now if an inadequately secured shingle flies across the street, we’ll, that is an entirely different situation.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    18,340

    Default Re: Help

    This is such an obvious troll that I am amazed anybody is responding.

    Look, Brian, you are so absolutely clueless about negligence law (and insurance) that it's not worth my time to try to explain it to you, especially since you aren't likely to accept anything I say about it despite my 35 years experience in the insurance industry.

    With that in mind I suggest you study up on negligence before you come back with any more comments.

    You can start with this Wikipedia article and then google for additional resources:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligence

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

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    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    Sorry, I think you guys learn what you post from one another and not from life or a courtroom.
    I am very familiar with the law...and with litigating matters in a court.

    Quote Quoting Brian57
    View Post
    Negligence has little to do with a HO policy's liability or contractual agreement to cover damages. If you doubt this then please tell why a HO is liable when an unlicensed contractor injures himself on your property? Or, why a pipe burst is covered? Or, when a well secured shingle from your house flies across the street and hits a pedestrian on the head?
    Negligence does have a great deal to do with whether the insurer must pay a claim because most policies are written to cover harm resulting from negligence. Is it possible that a policy would cover acts other than negligence? Of course it is possible. It all comes down to how the coverage is written in the policy. So to answer the questions you posed here about specific situations, you must first have the policy in hand that tells you what is covered and what is not. Each policy is different, so what is covered will vary.

    What the homeowner is liable to pay may be distinctly different from what the insurer will cover. In general, a person is only liable to pay for injuries incurred by others in three situations: (1) where the person’s negligence or intentional act (e.g. battery, etc) caused the harm, (2) where the person has contractually obligated himself/herself to pay for it or (3) there is a statute that specifically makes the person liable to pay for it.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Help

    The damage caused by the pipes in the house, the shingles on the roof, the guns in the cabinet, the bikes in the garage, the furniture in the bdrm and the snowblower in the shed are all covered under the HO policy...irrespective of who is operating them or negligence.

    Does anyone really think that if a large vase in your house that was upstairs and was accidentally bumped by your neighbor and it fell and gave your other neighbor a concussion, that your HO policy would not cover it? Not a chance...it would be covered. Just like the snowblower would be covered...regardless of where it is or who is operating it.

    I was just in a house where the dog chewed through the toilet supply line. It flooded the whole house causing over $100,000 damage. It was covered. And it wouldn't matter if the neighbor's dog chewed it...it would be covered.

    IMO, the "neighbor" understands insurance better than anyone here.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

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    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    Does anyone really think that if a large vase in your house that was upstairs and was accidentally bumped by your neighbor and it fell and gave your other neighbor a concussion, that your HO policy would not cover it? Not a chance...it would be covered.
    That depends entirely on what the policy says. Some policies may cover that, some may not. It's impossible to say what an insurer will pay for without reading the policy issued by that insurer.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: Help

    Quote Quoting Brian57
    View Post
    The damage caused by the pipes in the house, the shingles on the roof, the guns in the cabinet, the bikes in the garage, the furniture in the bdrm and the snowblower in the shed are all covered under the HO policy...irrespective of who is operating them or negligence.

    Does anyone really think that if a large vase in your house that was upstairs and was accidentally bumped by your neighbor and it fell and gave your other neighbor a concussion, that your HO policy would not cover it? Not a chance...it would be covered. Just like the snowblower would be covered...regardless of where it is or who is operating it.

    I was just in a house where the dog chewed through the toilet supply line. It flooded the whole house causing over $100,000 damage. It was covered. And it wouldn't matter if the neighbor's dog chewed it...it would be covered.

    IMO, the "neighbor" understands insurance better than anyone here.
    Again, you are talking about things that happened ON the insured's property. You are giving no examples of things that happen on the injured person's property.

    If I slip and fall on my own property, whether I did it while using something belonging to someone else or not, the other person's insurance is not going to cover it. This guy damaged his own car, on his own property, while using a snowblower that he was controlling. Again, assuming the snowblower was not defective, its his own negligence and his own liability, not someone else's.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,056

    Default Re: Help

    When someone holds themselves out as a professional such as a painter, a contractor, a plumber, etc. and is hired by a HO, that does not create an employee-employer relationship. That creates a contractual relationship.

    This thread does not specify a state but in general a licensed contractor (or painter) is required to carry liability insurance against damage to property to obtain the license. They would also have to show proof of workman's comp coverage if they employ (and it varies by state) one or two or more employees and it is a corporation or the contractor employees any employees if not a corporation. A sole-proprietor working alone has the option to carry workman's comp or not. If they choose not to carry comp, they will be (not the homeowner) the responsible party for injury.

    I'm not disagreeing with any of the member's posts on who is responsible for the damage to the car. It's obviously the operator (not the owner) of the snow blower.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Help

    Well, you guys ought to do a little research on HO policies before trying to sound like authorities on it. I know for a fact that your HO policy will cover the medical bills of a person that was accidentally shot by a gun that was stored in a house. I know that your HO policy will cover a pedestrian or car that you hit on your bicycle that was stored in your house. I know that it will cover your neighbor that fell down your stairs. But it will not cover an unlicensed contractor who hurt himself on your property because it is specifically excepted from coverage. And you don't have to worry about a licensed contractor suing you for his injuries because, at least in CA, he cannot sue the HO for his injuries. The only people you hire to do work in your house that are covered are babysitters and maybe house cleaners.

    HO policies cover a lot, but how would you know unless you found yourself in one of those situations and knew to file the claim.

    Some of you guys establish your own facts through agreement with each other.

    I learned some of this through life and some through a personal injury lawyer who files claims against HO policies for a living. So, where did you guys learn your set of facts, through each other?

    Quote Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Again, you are talking about things that happened ON the insured's property. You are giving no examples of things that happen on the injured person's property.

    If I slip and fall on my own property, whether I did it while using something belonging to someone else or not, the other person's insurance is not going to cover it. This guy damaged his own car, on his own property, while using a snowblower that he was controlling. Again, assuming the snowblower was not defective, its his own negligence and his own liability, not someone else's.
    If my gun hurt someone in the backcountry or if my bike hurts someone in an intersection, by HO policy will cover those damages. I highly doubt I had to be holding the gun or riding the bike because the insurance is not on me, it is on the real estate and everything stored on that real estate.

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