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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    7,288

    Default Re: Can Prosecutors Make False Statements in Court

    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    It is interesting how you characterize JAN's views...that he has a "distain for prosecutors and the justice system as a whole."
    His/her statement was “However, most wish to win at any cost and their rebuttals of the defenses closing argument generally always crosses over all reasonable lines.” In that statement he/she did not say it was just some prosecutors that are corrupt; instead the statement was that “most wish to win at any cost” and that their arguments “generally always crosses over all reasonable lines.”

    The OP also said “Your attorney, as part of the local frat club of cronies, are in it to uphold the system and make money. This is why prosecutor abuse and misconduct is seldom challenged in America and allowed to be the rule, instead of the exception.” (Underlining added).

    He or she is therefore advancing the proposition that on the whole prosecutors are corrupt. That comes through very clearly given the portions I've underlined. And I take issue with that characterization that paints most or nearly prosecutors as corrupt. I have lived and worked in a number of areas of this country and thus likely have a broader experience with different legal communities than most. I lived in one area in which corruption was indeed a significant problem that permeated government as a whole, including prosecutors and the courts. So I know full well that it exists in this country. But I have also lived in several areas where the government, including particularly the prosecutors and the courts, were largely free of corruption and the justice system functioned reasonably well. My experience thus tells me that most prosecutors and courts in this country are likely reasonably free of corruption; sadly, however, a few are not (some of which are well known and yet have never been cleaned up). So I object to painting prosecutors as a whole as corrupt, as the OP clearly did.

    I am less certain that the OP has similar feelings about the justice system as a whole (indicated by my comment “I guess”) but the fact that his/her last sentence suggests that defense attorneys and the courts conspire to allow prosecutors to be corrupt certainly hints that the OP feels that way. And I object to painting the system generally as colluding in corruption for the same reasons I gave above.


    Quote Quoting Brian57
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    I assume you have never had a loved one be the victim of corrupt police or prosecutors, therefore you downplay it. Until then, I'd say your opinion is too detached from the harm they cause.
    One does not have to be victim (or a relative/friend of a victim) of a bad prosecution to recognize it. But to get a accurate impression of the whole universe of lawyers and judges in this country you need to see a number of them at work in different parts the country. What I see too often on these boards are people who have had one bad experience themselves with the justice system and then extrapolate from that one experience that all prosecutors and courts are that way. Those who form their views off only one or a very limited set of experiences are often going to biased and not have an accurate perception of the system as a whole.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Long Beach, CA
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: Can Prosecutors Make False Statements in Court

    TM,
    You make a distinction between having a distain for select prosecutors vs. prosecutors as a whole. I agree that harboring that general dislike of all prosecutors is not warranted but the line is blurred sometimes. Example: If a policeman planted evidence on you or wrote a false police report in front of other officers, and that was business as usual, would you feel distain toward all officers in that precinct that allow it to happen? Of course you would even though a small percentage of them were actually the bad apples.

    Personally, I believe it is much more pervasive than you make it appear. Just in my little world my 88 year old father was recently threatened by a prosecutor that he could do jail time. He laughed in her face before she stormed off for a case that was so trivial it was later dropped, only after thirteen wasted visits to the courthouse. My brother was highly pressured by an officer of the court to drop his appellate case...a case that he won. Then there is my friend who was railroaded. So I think it is much more common than you let on.

    I did not say that you do not "recognize it." I said that personally being the victim of it makes it more real and could legitimately change your 'recognition' to a 'distain.'

    FWIW, I do not harbor distain for the 90% of good cops and prosecutors. I like to believe that the system is so complex that fixing it is bigger than them.

    So, TM, nothing to say?

    Well, if you are so on the inside of this issue of knowing when and where corrupt prosecutors do their harm, I have one question for you. Have you ever witnessed a prosecutor, along with the detectives, put an innocent man in prison? Or, what's the most egregious thing you've seen one do?

    Let's see if you have the impartiality to answer that? I doubt it, because you are likely one of the pro-prosecution clique here, and they just don't talk like that. Right? they rationalize it away, much like what you've done.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Prosecutors Lie in Court

    When I was on jury duty and listened to the prosecution, they definitely did not lie. And it was definitely not the sort of atmosphere where that type of bullshit would be tolerated. In fact, the judge would rule objections very fairly.

    That isn't to say that there aren't courtrooms where this type of thing doesn't go on. But most places in the US, the courts tend to be pretty fair. And when this type of corruption comes to light, there are very serious consequences for lying prosecutors.

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